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How to Protect Structural Insulated Panels from Decay

Sealing air leaks at SIP seams can be difficult, especially when roof panels will be finished with interior boards

Posted on Jul 4 2011 by Scott Gibson

UPDATED on July 7, 2011 with comments from Tedd Benson

Jay Hersh is building a house in northern Vermont that will have a roof of structural insulated panels. Although his plans are fairly advanced, Hersh is still stumped about detailing the SIP(SIP) Building panel usually made of oriented strand board (OSB) skins surrounding a core of expanded polystyrene (EPS) foam insulation. SIPs can be erected very quickly with a crane to create an energy-efficient, sturdy home. seams to prevent the migration of moisture-laden air from inside to outside. He's also looking for a foolproof way of heading off any leaks from the outside.

This strategy, as he explains in this Q&A post at GreenBuildingAdvisor, involves the installation of a membrane (as yet unidentified) between the tongue-and-groove ceiling and the roof SIPs, and another membrane between the top of the SIPs and the standing-seam metal roof.

Suggestions to date for the roof underlayment on top of the SIPs include asphalt felt, RoofTopguard, or Grace Ice & Water Shield. He's not sure what type of membrane to use between the ceiling boards and the SIPs.

Hersh asks for advice, and the resulting discussion is the subject for this week’s Q&A Spotlight.

Air infiltration can be a problem

SIPs consist of an inner core of foam and two outer faces of oriented strand board (OSB). While the assembly can perform well, writes Albert Rooks, it’s also “extremely sensitive” to moisture in seams where the panels meet.

Rooks seconds GBAGreenBuildingAdvisor.com senior editor Martin Holladay’s suggestion that the most important step is a good air barrierBuilding assembly components that work as a system to restrict air flow through the building envelope. Air barriers may or may not act as a vapor barrier. The air barrier can be on the exterior, the interior of the assembly, or both., including spray foam at all SIP seams plus a high-quality tape on the interior at all seams.

Moisture problems can still develop over the life of the roof in three ways, Rooks adds:

  • By piggybacking on migrating air, water vapor originating inside the building finds its way into the internal network of wire chases and then to the exterior OSB skin of the panel.
  • Building movement over time can degrade the interior foam joints, opening up new pathways for moisture-laden air.
  • Lack of an airtight joint at the seams between the panels and the foundation can allow air into the chase network, and once the water vapor hits the exterior OSB, it can condense.

He recommends foaming all seams and installing Siga Rissan tape to seal seams at the interior. (Albert Rooks is an importer who sells Siga tapes.)

Rooks adds that it is not advisable to use an impermeable roof underlayment. Instead, he advises installing "a waterproof material with a high diffusion rating” to allow drying to the outside, specifically Siga Majcoat — one of the products he imports and sells. “The key to the assembly is keeping the permeability increasing as you go up in layers,” Rooks writes. “It will increase the OSB’s ability to dry out any internal moisture.”

Follow the Majcoat with battens and counter-battens or sheathingMaterial, usually plywood or oriented strand board (OSB), but sometimes wooden boards, installed on the exterior of wall studs, rafters, or roof trusses; siding or roofing installed on the sheathing—sometimes over strapping to create a rainscreen. to carry the metal roofing, he says.

Dealing with the tongue-and-groove ceiling

One complication to air sealing on the interior is the tongue-and-groove ceiling.

“The SIP installer intends to put the T&G ceiling boards down on top of the frame before the roof SIPs go on since it's a lot cheaper, faster and easier to do it that way than to install them on the underside of the SIPs,” Hersh says. “Also, it means the SIP doesn't get perforated.

“So I'm confused about the suggestions to tape & foam the interior, since I don't see how the interior seams can be accessed if the SIPs are going down over the T&G boards. I'm pretty sure that's why they recommended some type of material be placed over the T&G boards.”

That’s going to make it tough to get a good air seal, Holladay says, because you won’t be able to tape the interior seams of the panels.

“Experience has shown that foaming the seams is insufficient to attain high levels of airtightness,” Holladay writes. “Although taping the exterior seams is a good idea, you could still end up with interior air circulation through convective loops at your SIP seams; when this looping air contacts cold surfaces — the exterior tape — condensation and rot can occur.”

Although adding a layer of Tyvek above the T&G boards might work in theory, the idea has some practical shortcomings: it will take a lot of fasteners to hold the slippery Tyvek in place, each one of which is a potential air leak, and the Tyvek would have to be bonded to the air barriers in the walls perfectly. “That idea contains a lot of opportunities for failure.”

Instead of Tyvek, Rooks suggests another product he sells: Siga Majpell, with a perm rating of 0.68, or a similar CertainTeed product, MemBrain, held on not with nails but with double-sided tape.

A method for taping from below

The problem of moisture-laden air migrating through what look like well-sealed joints is familiar to Chris Koehn, who says he first started installing SIPs over timber frames in 1988 in Wisconsin.

For years, Koehn used expanding foam to seal seams between panels from above. On a few occasions, he later noticed ridges in shingles in cold weather and discovered frost on the bottom of the shingles directly over panel joints.

Working with Insulspan, he developed another approach. By draping tape over the tops of timbers, then installing the panels, the seams could be sealed on the inside. When a T&G ceiling is going in, Koehn would add spacers on top of roof framing to create a gap between the framing and the panels. T&G boards could be added later.

Or, look for a roof alternative

The practical problems associated with preventing moisture damage in SIPs prompts this suggestion from Brett Moyer: “Skip the SIP walls and roof,” he writes. “Why the hell do people use these? They are super-expensive and far from green. I’m so tired of these topics popping up on GREEN building websites. You all know they are pumped chock full of petrochemical foams, right? Use a double wall and frame the cathedral ceilings with raised heel scissor trusses... Airtight Drywall Approach for your air barrier. I guarantee this will be a cheaper and certainly much greener strategy.”

Although Hersh explains the careful evolution of his SIP strategy, Moyer asks whether anyone has done a cost analysis of SIPs vs. other wall and roof assemblies. “I can confidently say that there are more cost-effective ways to achieve these R-values.”

In fact, writes Al Cobb, just such a study has been done, which is available at the website of the Structural Insulated Panel Association. “The study identified higher initial cost and embedded energy to build with SIPs,” he adds. “It also shows the return on investment to be relatively short and dependent on the region you build.

“A higher performing system (like SIPs or double wall construction) almost always starts with a higher price. However, just as you frame a double wall for lower overall cost, many elect to use SIPs for the same reason.”

Our expert’s opinion

The comments below were provided by Tedd Benson of Bensonwood Homes.

Jay’s query about proper detailing a SIPs roof installation over a timber-frame is an excellent one and the essence of the advice offered in this thread adds up to an extremely impressive response. In fact, I haven’t seen so much well-considered information about this important topic in one place in my 32+ years of working with SIPs. So the first thing I want to do is to give a note of gratitude to the Green Building Advisor. This forum has become one of the most important information resources and exchanges for high performance building practice and is helping to fill a big void. Many thanks to all!

I first learned about SIPs at Advanced Cooler Manufacturing Co. in Halfmoon, NY, in 1978. They specialized in walk-in coolers and refrigerated warehouses. Since good insulation was the basis of their business (and the reason I was there), they had a dedicated laboratory and a small team of engineers to study the performance of different types of insulation, their assemblies, and panel connections. Years of making walk-in coolers and ongoing research led them to eventually develop an insulation assembly more commonly called “stressed-skin” panels at the time. The Advanced Cooler panels had thin metal skins and a polyurethane foam core. When they took me to see a refrigerated warehouse with their panels mounted over a Butler steel frame, I squinted and saw a future in the potential marriage of stressed-skin technology and timberframes.

But that wasn’t the end of the visit. They gave me a tour (led by their president, Ed O’Hanlon) of the laboratory and showed me why making the joints airtight in the installation is just as important as making good panels. They were able to simulate pressure and temperature differentials with laboratory mock-ups and otherwise had lots of experience with cooler installations around the country that revealed why leaks at the panel seams could be so significant. For my layman benefit, they called the issue the “pinhole-in-a-balloon effect,” making the point that a nearly perfect assembly can actually exacerbate the problems caused by the imperfections, however slight. One of the engineers claimed to have seen an icicle sticking 3 in. horizontally out a panel seam on the exterior of a walk-in cooler.

So, the first thing I learned about the product most people now call SIPs is what I already knew about timber frames, which is that most of the challenge, science, and craft is at the connections, because that’s where failure is most likely.

Of course, the consequences of leaky seams in a walk-in cooler are small in comparison to what this kind of problem can do to a building with high-quality finishes inside and out. It’s something we simply have to get right.

No single solution

To prepare some comments for this forum, I asked a few of my associates to give me their thoughts about the opinions and ideas expressed in the thread. The following therefore includes some “collective intelligence” from my discussion with Paul Boa, Jay Lepple, and Hans Porschitz. This is not the first time I’ve benefited from their experience and expertise.

From our point of view, Martin Holladay gave a good succinct answer at the beginning: redundant solutions; spray foam between panels; vapor closed sealing strategy on the building interior; vapor open strategy on the exterior. If the thread had ended there, it would have left Jay with good guidance.

Albert Rooks’ comment about SIPs being “extremely sensitive” at the seams echoed what I learned from the Advanced Cooler engineer years ago. That point is perhaps the most important thing to know about SIPs. Rooks goes on to suggest a comprehensive solution, utilizing SIGA products. We are fans of the SIGA collection of air-sealing products and have been integrating a few of their tapes into our assemblies. SIGA could have saved us a lot of heartache if they had been available 30 years ago. The proposal that Albert and Patrick Haacke promote follows Martin’s basic outline and is smart in how it controls vapor movement and diffusion. It’s not the cheapest solution, but since we all agree failure is not an option, a system that would nearly ensure success is worth a lot.

Chris Koehn’s suggestion for applying boards from the inside after taping and sealing is the way we would go if we had to install the panels individually. His proposal was to use a 7/8-in. furring strip to allow space to insert 3/4 in. boards after dealing with the seams and edges. It’s more labor-intensive, but you also have assurance about having achieved a good interior seal. It should be noted that the same strategy can be used for installing and sealing SIP wall panels. In that case, we would use 5/8-in. “packers” to allow 1/2-in. drywall to be hung after sealing.

Foam alone not adequate

On another note, I will differ with Al Cobb and say that I don’t believe a good, dependable seal can made with spray foam alone. There are several potential pitfalls. One is simply the foam flow in the joint that you can’t see. In the right conditions, in the hands of a professional with good experience, it will fill and seal quite well, but are those conditions always perfect? Of course not. Just a flake of panel foam broken off would inhibit the correct fill and seal.

The other condition that’s a big variable is weather. When the foam-pack requires pre-warming in the pickup cab, and the outside temperature is below freezing, it’s time to worry. Any system that requires unknown conditions to be perfect isn’t good enough on its own. That’s why foam plus tape makes so much sense to us. Do the best job you can with the foam injection, but don’t depend on it.

Our SIPs roof panel system has evolved over the years, as we’ve constantly tried to make it better and more efficient to install. We like to make big panels that are as complete as possible. First, we cut the panel to the roof dimensions and geometry. It’s important at this point to fill all the exposed voids between the bun stock pieces that make up the larger panels (a significant problem with some of the manufacturers!). Then we tape the interior OSB seams with SIGA Sicrall, after which we attach the finish ceiling material -- usually T&G boards -- directly to the panels before installation.

When the panels are installed on the frame, the vertical seams between the big panels always align with rafters. To ensure a good seal between the panels, we use a Trelleborg gasket toward the inner side of the SIP connection, just above the OSB. (This little detail is similar to the solution I first learned at the Advanced Cooler company. Since they wanted both a good seal AND for the coolers to be demountable, they used only substantial gaskets, like those on any freezer door, to seal between the panel seams.) When the panel installation is completed, we foam the joints as we have for years, and then apply the SIGA Wigluv tape over the exterior seams, just as Albert Rooks described. The final layer is Grace TriFlex, which provides a watertight, but vapor open barrier.

Our projects are probably split 50/50 between warm and cold roof applications. We prefer to use the cold roof as a general rule, but most budgets have limits, and more so these days. But either way, this is a SIPs roof system that should last for a very long time.

Keep building components separate

One thing that should be evident from this exchange is that creating a sustainable high performance envelope isn’t simple, nor inexpensive. Therefore, a building built this way ought to be extremely durable and should be expected to last hundreds of years. One important aspect of that, we believe, is to employ strategies to disentangle the shorter term building parts from the longer term. In general, the building envelopeExterior components of a house that provide protection from colder (and warmer) outdoor temperatures and precipitation; includes the house foundation, framed exterior walls, roof or ceiling, and insulation, and air sealing materials., or shell, should be separate and distinct from the space plan, mechanical systems and finishes, which can also be separated from each other. The shell should be designed for permanence; the infill elements for change and churn.

With this as kind of flexibility and durability as a paramount objective, wires and fixtures should be separated from high-performance wall and roof systems whenever possible. We add a mechanical chase layer to our walls always, and to our roof panels when there is a heavy mechanical demand in that area. Otherwise, we have dedicated chases at the building peak, at the eave and other strategic locations when necessary. The point is that after sealing a building in the way we’re talking about in this forum, we need to also make changes and upgrades easy and provide a path other than one that violates the integrity of the envelope.


Tags: ,

1.
Mon, 07/04/2011 - 09:19

Oh my.
by James Morgan

Helpful? 0

To extend Brett's thinking: "cathedral roofs and t&g ceilings - why the hell do people do these?".

Sorry to be blunt, but this whole situation arises from pursuing the appearance of a natural home while ignoring the actualities. The net result: chopped up bits of wood stuck to a too-high ceiling to conceal half an inch of flakeboard and eight inches of petrochemical foam. It's a combination that usually falls more on the side of conspicuous consumption and impressing the neighbors than any green building reality.

First principles: boarded ceilings are inherently leaky. Vaulted roofs are inherently wasteful of materials and energy. Deployed together they almost always result in a significant energy penalty, not just thermally but also in a darker than necessary interior where artificial lighting will regularly be used even in the daytime. This is how they generally end up dotted with countless can lights mounted far too high to provide good illumination. Standard 'solution': add more cans. Lighting design 101: effective illuminance on a surface falls off in proportion to the SQUARE of the distance from the light source, people!

OK. Rant over. I feel better.


2.
Mon, 07/04/2011 - 09:46

for James Morgan
by 5C8rvfuWev

Helpful? 0

As a consumer, it was conversations such as these that have lead my plans away from just such a design. It sounds so simple when you say it: "Plunk some SIPs over the timber frame and you're done." Such conversations serve as a powerful reminder of just why such structures are a contradiction of where my comfort level leads me. I feel bad for Jay Hersh, but the discussion continues to be invaluable for those of us who are listening.

Joe W


3.
Wed, 07/06/2011 - 11:46

Edited Wed, 07/06/2011 - 18:19.

How to install SIPS over a T&G ceiling
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 0

OK, we do this all the time, mostly in retro-fit situations, but it is really quite simple. Do not use SIPS, use Nail-Base Panels (Insul-lam is a local brand name for them). The Nail-Base product is like a SIPS panel with foam on only one side. We prefer to have them shipped with 5 1/4" of foam on the OSB, and a second layer of 4" foam to install underneath, with seams staggered between the two layers. This makes for a total foam thickness of 9 1/4", which allows a standard 2x10 to be used for sealing up the gable ends, and a 2x12 ripped to the appropriate angle will work for the eaves. The panles are available in larger sizes, but for this application, 4'x8' panels are the least costly, and will work just fine.
Now for the installation part: The type of spray-foam that comes in a can is not a very good air barrier, but it does provide good insulation value. The proprietary caulk-type sealants that the SIPS manufacturers sell is an excellent air barrier, but it does not fully eliminate any air gap that may exist between panels. The solution is to use both. At the bottom corner of each panel, place a 3/8" bead of the caulk, then at the center line of each panel use a bead of spray-foam. Squish the panels tightly together, once you have about four of the 4" foam panels down you can start with the top layer, and repeat the same process. You will have a total of four beads of protective material, two of the caulk, and two of the foam, which should have spread out to completely fill any gaps between the panels.
For the top membrane, use GAF DeckArmor, it is a vapor-permeable roofing underlayment, that will allow any moisture that does make it through to escape out the top as vapor on any warm day.
We usually start the foam panels over a layer of 30 lb felt, just because we are usually doing this as a retro-fit, and that is what is already there. Just about any underlayment would work. Most roofing underlayments are NOT vapor permeable, so something like Matrix, or any of the other synthetic underlayments would work well.


4.
Wed, 07/06/2011 - 18:28

Regarding James Morgan's rant...
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 0

James is right, if you allow the T & G decking to lay across the exterior walls all the way out the overhangs. On the other hand, if you stop the T & G at the middle of the wall line, then install a 2x2 or 2x4 parallel to the wall line, properly air-sealing the perimeter, then commence with separate runs of material on the outside, you will not have the horrendous air infiltration problems that many homes of the 1960s and 70s had with this type of ceiling layup.
As for cathedral ceilings, we use them in almost every home we build, and we are going WAY below net-zero-energy, even in cold climate zones. It is all in the details, my friend! No recessed cans, of course, but pendants on tracks are very nice, getting the light down where it will do you some good.
Joe W, have heart, we can build you the home you want, with all the style points you desire, and still make it darned energy efficient. Would you like to power your electric car with the surplus power produced by your home? We do that...


5.
Wed, 07/06/2011 - 20:38

How does one know if the roof panels are deteriorating?
by Karla Eldridge

Helpful? 0

Oh My - I have SIPS roof panels and walls, and ICF basement. Our home is only 6 years old. How would we know if the contractor did everything right, or if the panels already have moisture damage. Esp concerned about the roof - which is the ceiling for the third floor rooms. There are large exposed beams with panels in-between.
Are their tell tale signs, or do they have a life span? Do I lay awake at night now and stare up and wonder if moisture is doing its damage?


6.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 01:36

How to install SIPs over a T&G ceiling - retrofit
by Bruce Johnson

Helpful? 0

I agree with Ted's comments. I've not done this as frequently as he may have, but I installed about 32 square of 4'x8'x10-1/2"nailbase insulation panels (SIPs w/o the bottom facing OSB) over 1/2" OSB over 2 layers of 1-1/2" polyisocyanurate insulation over GAF WeatherWatch underlayment over a 38 year old (now 40) 2x6 T&G #2 Fir roof deck on my own A-Frame. 30 lb felt underlayment was installed over the top layer of 3/4" OSB prior to installation of the standing seam roofing.

We foamed the joints and caulked the splines of the nailbase after staggering the joints of the two 1-1/2" polyisocyanurate layers foaming as/where needed. The 2 layers of high-R insulation board were used to encapsulate electrical wiring in 1/2" conduit and low-voltage wiring run on the roof deck as well as the 3" OD insulated 1" copper supply/return tubing run on the roof deck for the seven 4'x8' solar hot water panels mounted just below the ridge. The interim layer of 1/2" OSB was primarily added to protect the bottom layers while the nailbase was installed and to aid installation of the 15" screws securing the panels to the deck. (In hindsight that layer might have been better to be 3/4" treated ply so the screws could have provided less of a thermal bridge, but I was also concerned about secure attachment.)

In 2009 I may not have been familiar w/ GBA, but this was the favored solution for all of the issues I identified according to all the building science folks consulted. The roofing is 24 gauge steel with a Kynar finish which should last 75 years or more on this 24/12 pitch. Feel free to check back with me in 25-50 years to see how the solution is performing.


7.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 04:26

Edited Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:33.

Response to Karla
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

Karla,
Don't freak out if you don't have any signs of problems.

What's your climate? Most SIP problems have occurred in cool, damp climates. There was a big cluster of failures in Juneau, Alaska.

The first signs of problems with the roofs in Juneau occurred when workers walking on the roof noticed soft spots. On some homes, mushrooms were actually growing on the roofs, pushing through the asphalt shingles. The mushrooms grow in stripes, right above the SIP seams.


8.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 10:21

How to protect SIPS from decay....
by Ed Latson

Helpful? 0

A much too common problem with some SIPS--usually panels made out of square;panels not installed square on site; using DIY foam in a can...

Suggestion: Get in touch with Jeff Brooks-sales manager with Vermont Timber Frames/ Timberline Panel Co.,LLC- at : jeffbrooks@vtf.com (Cambridge NY/ Bennington VT)

VTF started making their own panels in their own production facility---EPS with OSB in panels up to 8" x 24' (2 sheets OSB at 8 x 24 w/ 2 sheets 4 x 24 foam); custom in-house cutting; installation offered; lifetime warranty on the panels; they also make panels with BASF's Neopor foam- the graphite coated EPS= +/- R-value about 20% higher than plain EPS. Timberline/VTF have seen all kinds of problems with other makers panels; they trouble shoot all the time with situations with hybrid (panel-to-frame) situations; they also make nailbase panels; also sign up and join SIPA-Structural Insulated Panel Association- as a builder member. SIPA wants panels installed and used correctly-a GREAT resource!!!!

These are not the panels from the late 70's, early 80's--panels done correctly have a great future in our profession whether it's for a timber frame skin; a Passivhaus; a SIPS house; or nailbase panels for a deep energy retrofit....remember...time is money... and money is a resource as well.


9.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 11:53

Edited Thu, 07/07/2011 - 11:54.

Failed panels from Alaska
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 0

I was at a SIPS plant in Fife when a load of the failed panels from Alaska was being unloaded off a truck to be examined as to the cause of failure. They had removed the panels by cutting down the centers of the panels, leaving the seams exactly as they had been installed. There were gaps at least 1/4" wide, with no attempt made to install any adhesive, sealant or spray foam of any kind in any of the joints. This was clearly an installation failure, by workers who had no clue what they were doing. The approved installation method requires at least four sealant locations (including the SIPS tape on the inside), NONE of which were even attempted on the failed panels.
Karla, if your home was constructed by an experienced SIPS installer, you can sleep very well, you will not have any problems with your SIPS roof.


10.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 15:15

I don't get it
by Michael Anschel

Helpful? 0

If the author knows that controlling vapor is going to be an issue, why would he propose a detail like T&G material regardless of the assembly. So the SIP shows up the bad design in a more dramatic fashion than a foam/BIB/Batt truss? The rest of the commentary seems silly, SIPs are an engineered wall and ceiling assembly that come with detailed installation requirements. The fact that the construction industry routinely screws up the installation of even the most basic of assemblies, comes as no surprise to anyone.


11.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 15:21

Response to Michael Anschel
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

Michael,
I'm not sure I understand your point. You wrote, "If the author knows that controlling vapor is going to be an issue..." But the discussion on this page is about air leakage, not vapor control. No one worries about vapor diffusion through SIPs. Moreover, OSB rot at SIP seams is always due to air movement, not vapor diffusion.


12.
Thu, 07/07/2011 - 17:42

SIP's as the environmentally friendly option
by Bob Deeks

Helpful? 0

From our perspective SIP's panells are a great choice when considering green option. The EPS foam core although made from pertochemicals is actually 98% air. In addition using the pre cut panels reduces construction waste dramatically. Interestingly the Insulspan plant where we source our panels has measured their waste and has determiuned that less than 7% of the raw material goes as waste. They then chipp waste EPS and sell it for use in other products. Waste OSB panels are also resold.


13.
Fri, 07/08/2011 - 11:28

Response to Bob Deeks
by Tedd Benson

Helpful? 0

We've slowed our use of SIPs in the last decade because of our inability to effectively recycle the waste cutoffs. For the most part, we now limit our use of SIPs to roofs because there is much less waste, and we're able to reuse the large size cutoffs more easily. With the many window and door openings, as well as the roof angle cutoffs in the wall panels, there is an enormous amount of waste that is extremely hard to recycle because the skins have to be separated from the foam cores, which is very hard to do. Also, even when that laborious skin-separation job is done (ripping in to manageable widths, then slicing with a bandsaw), foam residue is inevitably left on the inner face of the skins, making those pieces difficult to recycle or grind up for heating fuel. It's good that we don't bring waste to the jobsite, having precut the panels in our facilities, but it's not so good if the result is filling up our local landfill.
Therefore, though we have used SIPs for many years, I think we have to be careful about gracing them with the green label. They are quite good at insulating, but I don't think the huge amount of waste that typically results from the cutting and shaping of wall panels has really been solved, and therefore it's system that I've come to think just isn't green enough. That's an opinion I regret to say because I've advocated for SIPs use as much as anyone in the past. I can even hold on to the argument that using petrochemicals for insulation isn't such a bad thing; in fact, it may be one of the least bad things to do with that precious resource. But I can no longer condone the usual volume of waste generated from the construction of a single residential building. We have to do better.


14.
Sun, 07/10/2011 - 00:58

Edited Sun, 07/10/2011 - 00:59.

We HAVE done better using SIPS
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 0

We have designed and built SIPS buildings with absolutely zero waste. By designing window opening sizes to correspond to sizes of panels needed to fill in above doors and below other windows, we have been able to use every scrap of material ordered. About five years ago we built a 5,000 sf commercial building this way. We saved thousands of dollars of fabrications costs by doing it ourselves on-site. SIPS efficiency is all in the design. We also recently built a home with only nine studs in the walls, not counting the outside corners. When done right, SIPS are without a doubt the most green way to build.


15.
Sun, 07/10/2011 - 10:32

To a man with a hammer
by James Morgan

Helpful? 0

everything looks like a nail. SIPS may have their place and their purpose in the green building toolkit but nonsensical claims like "without a doubt the most green way to build" do the product no service. Ted's lead point is a fair one, that through focusing design entirely on the characteristics of the material SIP waste can be minimized - even eliminated. But compromising other essential design criteria in order to make up for the lack of flexibility of a particular material's form factor is no way to pursue the best in green construction.


16.
Sun, 07/10/2011 - 14:04

Sacrificing other design criteria?
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 1

Nobody sacrificed anything. Let me give you an example. For our commercial building, we used 3'x5' windows, in a 13' high wall. The story height was predicated by the intended use of the building. If you subtract the 5' window height from the 13' wall height, you get 8', the standard width of a SIPS panel. An 8'x12' panel will net you four panels for below windows, and four panels for above windows, zero waste. Gable end walls were calculated to use the cut-off from one panel to form the next. As long as your building width is on a 4' multiple (or even on a 2' multiple, since you have two ends to work with, and a 4' minimum stock panel width), you can easily design to use every piece of panel. We have way too many tricks to enumerate here, but I want to stress that we design for building and room function first, then for passive solar, then for net-zero-energy, then for materials efficiency. If you close your eyes to the possibilities, you will never see them!
One last note on recycling SIPS, a hot-wire cutter will remove the foam from the OSB, even on a full 8'x24' panel, with very little foam left on the OSB. The scraps of foam from on-site cutting can be bagged up, and added to attic insulation. It takes about eight large garbage bags, loosely filled with EPS foam scraps, shipping peanuts, and other waste foam to surround an attic access hatch. This way the loose-fill attic insulation will be less likely to find its way through the attic opening each time you open it. We often ask for the triangular eave rips to be sent along with our order. When our roof lands on a second floor, we can caulk up the triangles, and stuff (and nail) them into the angled joint between floor and roof. Net-zero-energy, net-zero-waste. Everybody wins, no compromises!


17.
Sun, 07/10/2011 - 17:24

Good comeback, Ted.
by James Morgan

Helpful? 0

Sorry for jumping to conclusions on your design priorities. Goes to show that any material is as good as you choose to make it.


18.
Wed, 07/13/2011 - 09:10

Bagged foam scraps as insulation??
by Terry Steiner

Helpful? 0

Ted comments above that he bags scraps of foam to use as attic insulation around access hatches, etc. I used to think that was a good idea, but then realized that the air circulation within the bag around the scraps would likely negate a lot of the insulation value. I have been known to 'glue' scraps together with spray foam, but that generally isn't practical.
My current project is a great room timber-framed with SIPs, which is what got me reading this in the first place.


19.
Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:34

Bagged foam scraps
by Ted Clifton

Helpful? 0

Terry's point above would probably apply to large scraps, with a lot of air, but we are using a combination of packing peanuts and sweepings from the SIPS job site, which pack in about as tight as any loose fill insulation. Because the air inside the bag cannot be "air-washed" by breezes blowing through the attic, it would be much less prone to losing energy than the rest of the attic insulation. Interesting point, though, I'll have to take some infra-red pictures next time I have someone with an infra-red camera at one of our job sites. It will be interesting to see what it shows!


20.
Mon, 08/08/2011 - 08:06

IR pics of bagged scraps
by Terry Steiner

Helpful? 0

I would be very interested in 'seeing' how these work out.... I have been 'collecting' foam scraps and would really like to have an effective use for them!


21.
Fri, 09/02/2011 - 18:51

Building with SIPs
by Steven Pitchford

Helpful? 0

Just reviewed all the interesting comments. I'm a never ending do it yourself-er. Am also a certified draftsman living in the greater Phoenix valley of the sun. I have plans to build a retirement home outside of Globe, Arizona an old mining town. my property is located a 5,000 ft altitude on a rocky mountain side. It's dry and hot most of the year except during a month long summer monsoon of blowing rain and a short few weeks of winter snow. I plan to build a post & beam straw bale house with a SIP roof, metal standing seams. I also plan for a few other SIP wall panels where bales are not flexible, like under window seats, and a clerestory section on the roof peak to gain ventilation. Obviously, my weather conditions and building materials are different than discussed. Did I mention I'll be using earthen plaster on the wall and adobe brick for a heat sink. Of course the cardinal rule of straw bale building is the bales must never get wet. Are SIPS suitable for me and my climate conditions?


22.
Sat, 09/03/2011 - 05:25

Response to Steven
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

Steven,
As long as you do a conscientious job of installation, with attention to air sealing and water management details, I think SIPs will perform well for you.


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