Helpful? -1

Insulating the Roof of a Bonus Room

A homeowner faces a familiar problem: Turning an uninsulated space over the garage into a comfortable office

Posted on Dec 2 2013 by Scott Gibson

Andrew K has a project that should ring a bell with lots of homeowners: What's the best way of insulating a room over the garage so it becomes useful, conditioned spaceInsulated, air-sealed part of a building that is actively heated and/or cooled for occupant comfort. ?

Andrew lives in Massachusetts, in Climate Zone 5A, and would like to turn the space, what real estate agents used to call a "bonus room," into an office. The roof is framed with 2x8 rafters and already has both soffit and ridge vents, but no insulation whatsoever.

"I have looked at closed-cell [spray foam] insulation, but quotes have come in at about $5,000-$6,000 to insulate the entire roof deck," Andrew writes in a Q&A post at GreenBuildingAdvisor. "So I'm looking for cheaper alternatives."

What he's got in mind is adding fiberglass batt insulationInsulation, usually of fiberglass or mineral wool and often faced with paper, typically installed between studs in walls and between joists in ceiling cavities. Correct installation is crucial to performance. to the rafter bays, leaving a 1-in. space for ventilation, plus 2 in. of rigid foam on the interior, then drywall.

Should Andrew install a vapor barrier? Should he be using faced batts? And which kind of rigid foam insulation would be the best choice, extruded polystyrene (XPSExtruded polystyrene. Highly insulating, water-resistant rigid foam insulation that is widely used above and below grade, such as on exterior walls and underneath concrete floor slabs. In North America, XPS is made with ozone-depleting HCFC-142b. XPS has higher density and R-value and lower vapor permeability than EPS rigid insulation.) or polyisocyanurate?

Those questions are the start of this Q&A Spotlight.

More ventilation, better insulation

Both GBA Senior Editor Martin Holladay and Dana Dorsett would opt for a ventilation gap greater than 1 inch gap that Andrew is planning, but they recommend slightly different approaches to insulating the rafter bays.

First, says Holladay, a 2-inch gap will be better than 1 inch. As far as insulating the rafter bays, he writes, dense-packed cellulose insulationThermal insulation made from recycled newspaper or other wastepaper; often treated with borates for fire and insect protection. will perform better than fiberglass batts, and polyiso insulation is more environmentally friendly than XPS.

"If you install 1x3 or 1x4 strapping (furring strips) on the underside of the polyiso," Holladay adds, "you'll have an easier time installing the drywall. And if you choose foil-faced polyiso, the air space will provide additional R-valueMeasure of resistance to heat flow; the higher the R-value, the lower the heat loss. The inverse of U-factor. to the roof assembly."

Dorsett suggests the code minimum is 1 1/2 inch when using vent channels, although that's not enough on low-slope roofs.

"Standard rock wool batts or high-density ‘cathedral ceiling’ batts can work if installed to near perfection," Dorsett says. "Dense-packing cellulose in a vented assembly is damned-near impossible to achieve without adding something both rigid and vapor permeable to maintain the the vent channel without it collapsing due to the pressure while dense packing."

One alternative, Dorsett says is a "flash-inch" of closed-cell spray foam on the underside of the roof deck, followed by dense-packed cellulose. In this case, the roof would be unvented.

"This does not meet the letter of the code," he adds, "but there is ample evidence that it works... If you go unvented you can't use foil facers on any interior-side foam. Fiberglass-faced roofing polyiso would work. EPSExpanded polystyrene. Type of rigid foam insulation that, unlike extruded polystyrene (XPS), does not contain ozone-depleting HCFCs. EPS frequently has a high recycled content. Its vapor permeability is higher and its R-value lower than XPS insulation. EPS insulation is classified by type: Type I is lowest in density and strength and Type X is highest. would be fine too. XPS has a heavy greenhouse footprint (heavier per inch than closed-cell foam) but that too would cut it. If XPS, 2 inches is the absolute max, or it becomes too vapor retardant."

Air baffles and an air barrier

What if, Andrew wonders, he used a rock-wool batt, rated at R-23 at a thickness of 5 1/2 inches? Would he need baffles between the top of the batt and the roof deck to preserve the ventilation channel? Or are the batts rigid enough on their own?

Rock wool insulation is air-permeable, Holladay replies, and it requires an air barrier on the top.

"The air barrier separates the warm air held between the insulation fibers from the cold air passing through your ventilation gap," he says. "Your ventilation baffles need to be installed in an airtight manner, because these baffles are your top-side air barrier."

In addition to AccuVent baffles, there are a number of options, including plywood, OSB, cardboard, and rigid foam. "Your suggested material — 1-inch XPS — probably has a high enough R-value and a high enough permeance to keep you out of trouble," Holladay says.

Not quite, replies Dorsett.

Although rock wool is air permeable, he says, "from a moisture transport point of view, but (unlike low-density fiberglass), rock wool batting is sufficiently air-retardant to not lose performance to convection, and will pretty much perform at its specified R-value as long as there is an air barrier on at least ONE side of the assembly."

The same can be said of high-density cathedral ceiling fiberglass, Dorsett says. It doesn't hurt to have an air barrier on the top side, it's not as important here as it might be in other assemblies.

"Where it's simple to add a top-side air barrier, go for it, but don't sweat it where it's difficult/awkward/impossible," Dorsett says. "If it's wide-open, using strips or chunks of 2-inch foam as spacers to the roof deck and 1 to 3 inch EPS rough-cut to fit, sealed at the edges with canned spray foam, works pretty well. EPS is preferred, since it's 3 to 5 times as vapor-permeable as XPS."

Filling the rafter bays with closed-cell foam is expensive and risky, he adds, because it would create a "moisture trap" for the roof deck, "between fairly impermeable roofing and barely permeable foam."

Are AccuVents a problem?

Matt Zahorik, facing a similar building problem at this southern New Hampshire home, wonders whether the use of AccuVents might pose a moisture problem.

"Do you have a concern," he asks Holladay, "in this setup that the AccuVent represents a vapor barrier, thus having a vapor barrier above and below the batts, giving the batts nowhere to dry should moisture be driven in?" he asks. "Would something like Tyvek on top of all or part of the batts but below the venting space act as an air barrier but allow vapor permeability?"

"I still think AccuVents can work fine," Holladay says, "and here's why: moisture problems in cathedral ceiling bays are almost always due to ceiling air leaks, not vapor diffusion. If you can make your ceiling airtight (or close to airtight), you're not going to have moisture problems.

"The small amount of moisture that enters cathedral ceiling bays via vapor diffusion is absorbed by the rafters. The rafters distribute the moisture, which evaporates from the tops of the rafters into the ventilation gap at the top of the rafters."

Dorsett isn't so sure.

"I'm not totally convinced the extremely low permeance of AccuVent won't be a problem if you have an actual air leak into the insulation from the interior side," he says. "It's not a simple thing to model, but it could be tested. With more permeable baffles the assembly becomes more resilient."

Our expert's opinion

Here's how GBA Technical Director Peter Yost sees it:

First of all, Martin Holladay already has a great GBA blog on this topic: “How to Build an Insulated Cathedral Ceiling.”

By all reports, the vapor permeability of in-place 3-tab asphalt roofing shingles is quite low, most likely a Class II vapor retarder (0.1 – 1.0 perms). That means either this cathedral roof assembly must either dry to the interior, or one side of the roof sheathingMaterial, usually plywood or oriented strand board (OSB), but sometimes wooden boards, installed on the exterior of wall studs, rafters, or roof trusses; siding or roofing installed on the sheathing—sometimes over strapping to create a rainscreen. must be ventilated (with soffit-to-ridge venting).

Whether or not you choose an unvented or a vented cathedral roof assembly is way less important than getting the details right for the water, air, and thermal barriers in the assembly. It’s hard to get building scientists to agree on the required depth of cathedral roof assembly venting, but they all agree that workmanship — the quality of the insulation, air sealing, and venting — is quite often the key.

And let’s not forget that drying potential, particularly in roof assemblies, is about protecting against all three types of wetting: bulk water (roof leaks), air leakage, and vapor by diffusion. As you specify each component of the roof assembly, worry about the assembly details in that order.

Finally, there is considerable variation in vapor permeability of EPS insulation by type; the permeability essentially varies according to the foam's density. It’s important to keep that in mind when considering the roof assembly’s vapor profileA vapor profile is an assessment of the relative vapor permeabilities of each individual component in a building assembly and a determination of the assembly's overall drying potential and drying direction based on vapor permeabilities of all of the components. The vapor profile addresses not only how the building's enclosure assembly protects itself from getting wet, but also how it dries when it gets wet. For a detailed treatment of this subject, see Building Science Corporation's article Understanding Vapor Barriers. or directional drying potential.


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1.
Mon, 12/02/2013 - 12:20

What about the floor?
by Eric Peterson

Helpful? 0

I was a little surprised that there was no discussion of insulating or sealing the floor. I would assume the garage is unheated, and there is the issue of exhaust. Any thoughts?


2.
Mon, 12/02/2013 - 13:17

Response to Eric Peterson
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

Eric,
The original question that led to this Q&A Spotlight article concerned roof insulation.

For a discussion of methods to insulate the floor of a bonus room, see:

How to Insulate a Cold Floor.


3.
Mon, 12/02/2013 - 13:28

Thanks Martin!
by Eric Peterson

Helpful? 0

good article, I hadn't thought about holding the insulation tight to the subfloor..


4.
Mon, 12/02/2013 - 23:22

SIPs
by Peter L

Helpful? 0

Another great alternative when dealing with vaulted ceiling are SIPs. They work perfectly with vaulted ceilings and I personally prefer steel SIPs over OSB SIPs but either one would work. Depending on panel thickness, one can see R-48 with a 12" EPS panel. I know many people dislike vaulted ceilings because of the issues brought up here in this article but utilizing SIPs in such an application is a good match.


5.
Thu, 12/05/2013 - 14:35

Walls and ceilings between a garage and living space
by David Bettridge

Helpful? 0

In addition to neglecting the issue of insulating the floor between the garage and the new conditioned space, this article neglects to address either the issue of fire or of fumes from the garage below.
I am in the process of a deep-energy-retrofit-like renovation of a split-level ranch-ish house and am wondering how to address the party wall and ceiling separating the garage from living space...


6.
Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:42

Edited Thu, 12/05/2013 - 15:43.

Response to David Bettridge
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

David,
This article is one in a series of articles called "Q&A Spotlight." The article summarizes comments from a single thread on our Q&A page. The original question concerned insulating a sloped roof assembly, so it's only reasonable that the posted answers focused on that question.

Your question concerns air sealing. You are correct, of course, that it's very important to air seal the floor assembly that separates a garage from a bonus room, just at it's important to air seal the common wall between an attached garage and the attached home.

The two best tools to help with your air sealing efforts are a blower door and a theatrical fog machine. For more information on these tools, see:

Blower Door Basics

Pinpointing Leaks With a Fog Machine


7.
Mon, 12/09/2013 - 08:17

Thanks Martin, the link to
by David Bettridge

Helpful? 0

Thanks Martin, the link to the cold floor article you shared in your response above has some great tips, and nice clear drawings so thanks for that.
The name of this article though is "How to Insulate a Room Over a Garage" which implies insulating all the walls, floor, ceiling, as well as dealing with issues specific to garages versus other kinds of cold spaces below finished rooms.
It should either deal with all those issues or have its name changed.
Sorry to pick on you when I find so much useful information on this web-site without ever thanking you for it.

David


8.
Mon, 12/09/2013 - 08:44

OK -- here's a new title
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

To GBA readers,
Eric Peterson didn't like the original title to this Q&A Spotlight.

David Bettridge didn't like the original title to this Q&A Spotlight.

So the article now has a new title. I'm sorry if the original title was confusing.


9.
Tue, 12/10/2013 - 02:26

What I did...
by John Walker

Helpful? 0

Our code requires 2.5" vent space. On my new house I used 2x10 for rafters then nailed 1x3 on the sides adjacent the roof sheathing and 1/2" plywood to those. The remaining rafter bay is filled with rock wool batt. Continuous 3" EPS covers the bottom of the rafters and 1x4 (with very long screws) supports the drywall. The vapour barrier is between the 1x4 and the drywall. This seems to work very well. We had a lot of scrap plywood from cutting out all the windows and a few additional sheets were inexpensive. The system is a bit labour intensive and you need to be careful nailing so close to the shingles. However it won’t collapse like cardboard chutes and is somewhat vapour permeable (top surface). The way I look at it there is zero opportunity to repair or correct this assembly so for me it’s got to be robust. (Oh, and no pot lights in the cathedral ceilings!)


10.
Mon, 12/16/2013 - 01:37

Oh good lord
by Igor Mastovitch

Helpful? 1

You guys can yap all day and never agree or make a conclusion. This sounds like a government discussion, rather than "experts". The fact that you can't agree on anything says you are either both wrong, both uneducated, or this whole discussion is a waste of everyone's time. I know it wasted mine!


11.
Mon, 12/16/2013 - 07:18

Response to Igor Mastovitch
by Martin Holladay, GBA Advisor

Helpful? 0

Igor,
This article is one of a series of articles called "Q&A Spotlight." The intention is to summarize the type of dialog that occurs on GBA's web forum. As is usual on such forums, a diversity of views are expressed.

Fortunately, GBA Technical Director Peter Yost agreed with my advice this time around -- and he even recommended my article on the topic. So, at least on this issue, there is consensus.


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