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When There Are Too Many Insulation Options

A homeowner in Michigan sorts through the choices for a new house, weighing wall thickness as well as insulation type

Posted on Feb 13 2017 by ScottG

Colleen A, planning a new house in Michigan's Climate Zone 5, has discovered there's a downside to the wealth of insulation products on the market: It's hard to make a decision.

"There are so many options on exterior insulation that my head is spinning," she writes in a Q&A post at GBAGreenBuildingAdvisor.com. So far, her research has ledLight-emitting diode. Illumination technology that produces light by running electrical current through a semiconductor diode. LED lamps are much longer lasting and much more energy efficient than incandescent lamps; unlike fluorescent lamps, LED lamps do not contain mercury and can be readily dimmed. her to an exterior wall assembly that includes a 2x4 framed structural wall filled with 3 inches of closed-cell polyurethane foam, oriented strand board sheathingMaterial, usually plywood or oriented strand board (OSB), but sometimes wooden boards, installed on the exterior of wall studs, rafters, or roof trusses; siding or roofing installed on the sheathing—sometimes over strapping to create a rainscreen. , 1 1/2 inches of extruded polystyrene rigid foam, and Tyvek DrainWrap as a water-resistant barrier.

She's considered other possibilities, including a 2x6 framed wall, Roxul mineral wool insulation, and polyisocyanurate rigid insulation. There are drawbacks to all of them.

And then there's the issue of building industry inertia, the difficulty of finding local builders as interested in the topic as she is.

"We will be our own contractors for the house," Colleen writes. "I haven't found any local builders that specialize in energy efficiency. From anyone I've talked to so far not many are interested in doing above and beyond code and seem to think it's a waste of time and money. I don't think so."

Colleen's questions are the topic for this Q&A Spotlight.

Exterior insulation is the right idea

Colleen is on the right track with exterior insulation, writes GBA senior editor Martin Holladay, even if some of the details in her wall assembly are less than ideal.

"Installing a layer of rigid foam on the exterior side of a 2x6 wall is a good idea," he says. "This will increase the R-valueMeasure of resistance to heat flow; the higher the R-value, the lower the heat loss. The inverse of U-factor. of the wall, reduce thermal bridgingHeat flow that occurs across more conductive components in an otherwise well-insulated material, resulting in disproportionately significant heat loss. For example, steel studs in an insulated wall dramatically reduce the overall energy performance of the wall, because of thermal bridging through the steel. , and reduce air leakage."

But, he adds, installing spray polyurethane foam in the stud cavities is not a great idea.

"The spray foam is expensive, not particularly green (because most types of closed-cell spray foam are manufactured with a blowing agent that has a high global warming potential), and the spray foam won't perform much better than dense-packed cellulose."

Further, Holladay says, in Colleen's climate zone, a 2x6 framed wall with an adequate thickness of exterior rigid foam makes a lot more sense than a 2x4 wall.

Extruded polystyrene (XPSExtruded polystyrene. Highly insulating, water-resistant rigid foam insulation that is widely used above and below grade, such as on exterior walls and underneath concrete floor slabs. In North America, XPS is made with ozone-depleting HCFC-142b. XPS has higher density and R-value and lower vapor permeability than EPS rigid insulation.) also has a high global warming potential, says Reid Baldwin. Expanded polystyrene (EPSExpanded polystyrene. Type of rigid foam insulation that, unlike extruded polystyrene (XPS), does not contain ozone-depleting HCFCs. EPS frequently has a high recycled content. Its vapor permeability is higher and its R-value lower than XPS insulation. EPS insulation is classified by type: Type I is lowest in density and strength and Type X is highest.) and polyiso both are more environmentally friendly, Baldwin says.

"In the stud cavities, cellulose, fiberglass, or open-cell foam are more environmentally friendly and cheaper," he adds. "Although they have lower R-values per inch than closed-cell foam, the impact on whole-wall equivalent R-value is pretty small because of the thermal bridging of the studs."

Wall thickness and the prevailing view of local builders

In some ways, the industry seems to be going backwards, Colleen says. A few friends who have built in the area recently all have gotten the same advice from their builders: build a 2x4 wall and insulate it with spray foam.

"We were shocked, because when we built this house 18 years ago, 2x6 was the way to go and I've always thought that," Colleen writes. "I like the interior look of a house with 2x6 better with the thicker window sills."

Baldwin, who also is building a high-performance house in Michigan, agrees that it's difficult to find builders who are eager to adopt building techniques for better-than-code houses.

"Custom builders may be willing to go beyond code if you are willing to pay the extra cost," he says. "The bids will probably be padded a bit due to the uncertainty of doing things differently. We were fortunate to find a builder that was willing to be a partner on designing the house. He was open to doing things differently and brought a lot of knowledge to the table that I wouldn't have gained from reading GBA. I think he learned a lot from my house and I hope he applies it to future projects."

With exterior insulation added to a 2x6 wall, however, total wall thickness starts to approach 8 inches, and Colleen wonders whether that complicates the installation of windows and doors.

On that issue, Steve Vigoren says his choice of 2x6 walls with an added 1 1/2 inches of exterior foam, plus 3/4-inch strapping, has worked out just fine.

"I ordered Marvin windows and just gave them the wall width which adds up to 9 3/4 inches, and they built the windows and sliding glass door jambs to match," Vigoren says. "I ended up with a 6 1/4-inch jamb from the inside of the window to the face of the Sheetrock. I was very pleased with this approach."

Choose foam insulation carefully

It's not necessarily wrong to choose spray foam for cavity insulation, Dana Dorsett adds, but make sure it's the right kind of spray foam. One key consideration is the thermal bridging — the loss of heat through the wood framing — inherent in 2x4 construction.

"The thermal bridging discount is huge," Dorsett writes. "A 2x4 wall with 3 inches (R-20) of two-pound closed-cell foam has almost exactly the same thermal performance of a 2x4 wall with 3 1/2 inches (R-13) half-pound open-cell foam, despite the higher center-cavity R, due to the thermal bridging issue. And the 3 inches of closed-cell costs more than twice as much as 3 1/2 inches of open-cell foam. Save the foam budget for the exterior."

The air-sealing qualities of 3 1/2 inches of open-cell foam are as good as or better than 3 inches of closed-cell foam, he says, while open-cell foam uses only half the polymer per R as closed-cell foam. Plus, it uses water for a blowing agent instead of a hydrofluorocarbon (HFC) called HFC245fa, a compound with much more climate-damaging potential.

"XPS is blown with a mixture of climate-damaging HFCs, which give it the higher labeled R/inch. But that performance boost over EPS of similar density is temporary, and does not last the full life cycle of the house," Dorsett adds. "In 50 years, that R-7.5 for 1 1/2 inches decays logarithmically to about R-6.3. EPS is blown with comparatively low-impact pentane, a low environmental impact gas, and it is small molecule that escapes very rapidly (most of it escapes and is recaptured before it leaves the manufacturer.) Its R-value is stable over time."

Polyiso is blown with pentane and other low-impact gases, Dorsett says, but its labeled R-6 per inch is overstated when the mean temperature is less than 40°F. In Climate Zone 5, it should be derated to R-5 or so per inch when used on the exterior of an R-13 framed wall.

"Bottom line: save the high-performance foam budget for the exterior," Dorsett says. "Installing 2 inches of polyiso on the exterior and using 3 1/2 inches of open-cell foam is the same thickness wall as a standard 2x6 wall, and it outperforms the proposed 3 inches of closed-cell foam plus 1 1/2 inches of XPS. And it's more resilient, since it gives the structural sheathing a good drying path, and it beats code minimum by about R-5 (whole-wall performance, all thermal bridging accounted for), a ~25-30% reduction in heat transfer compared to a code-min R-13 + 5 continuous insulation wall, compared to only a 10-15% improvement with the closed-cell plus XPS solution."

Don't forget about the drying potential of the wall

As the discussion has evolved, Colleen says the nod is now going to a 2x6 wall, but she still has concerns about the plane where the OSB sheathing and the exterior foam meet.

"As I understood, there needs to be some kind of air space so, in case of water, it could be directed away — and that it just needs to breathe," she says. "That's why I thought of [Tyvek] DrainWrap in that location."

A gap between the sheathing and exterior foam is only a concern when the builder uses cavity insulation that does not allow drying toward the interior, Holladay says. While exterior rigid foam is an excellent choice, make sure to use vapor-permeable insulation between the studs.

"I like dense-packed cellulose between the studs, but other materials — blown-in fiberglass, mineral wool batts, or even fiberglass batts — can work if they are installed conscientiously," Holladay says. "This approach also requires that there be no interior polyethylene. Once you follow this advice, you don't need any crinkly housewrap between the OSB and the rigid foam. The OSB will stay remarkably dry all winter long — dryer than if the wall had no rigid foam.

"By the way," he adds, "a wall doesn't need to breathe. It just needs to be designed well."

Our expert's opinion

GBA technical director Peter Yost added this:

At first blush, I wondered just how hard could it be to find a high-performance builder. Turns out that for Port Huron, not so easy. But here is the path I took, one I would take for this sort of question regardless of location:

  1. 1. Check with the Energy & Environmental Building Alliance to see if there are members within striking distance of your project.
  2. 2. The website for the Building Performance Institute (BPI) has a contractor locator tool that uses zip codes to help you find a builder.
  3. 3. Building professionals who have taken the Two-day Advanced Green Building: Building Science course offered by the National Association of Home Builders (NAHBNational Association of Home Builders, which awards a Model Green Home Certification.) are another potential source. I don’t have a specific avenue for this, except to suggest that you submit your request for this to NAHB. Or, try your local home builders' association. Building professionals who have completed this course should have the background needed for building science-savvy design, materials selection, and construction.
  4. 4. Track down a verifier for the National Green Building Standard. This program is run by the Home Innovation Research Labs (formerly the NAHB Research Center) and you can use this website to submit an email request for a local verifier who should be able to identify high-performance contractors.

Having said that (and having tried these four avenues for Port Huron), I have to admit I didn't make much progress. With BPI, I came up with only three building industry firms within 50 miles of Port Huron.
And after contacting NAHB, the local HBA, and the Home Innovations Research Labs, I came up with just two potential contacts that might help in Port Huron.

One is Cobblestone Homes in Saginaw, Michigan. That's not exactly next door to Port Huron, but the owners have good contacts for the Port Huron area. The other is Chris Schwarzkopf of Energy Diagnostics. Again, not exactly in Port Huron’s backyard, but this NGBSNational Green Building Standard Based on the NAHB Model Green Home Building Guidelines and passed through ANSI. This standard can be applied to both new homes, remodeling projects, and additions. Verifier and NAHB-Certified Green Professional may have local contacts for Colleen to pursue.

Note: To be fair, I got quick staff responses from NAHB and the Home Innovations Research Lab, but had difficulty connecting locally and that could be because I was just doing research as opposed to being a real customer for building services.

Now, about the insulation options. I'll start with a shameless plug for BuildingGreen's special report on insulation. The report is currently offered as a freebie at the end of any of my recent GBA building science blogs.

I recommend that anyone considering foam-in-place insulation should read this BuildingGreen blog:"Foam-in-Place Insulation: 7 Tips for Getting Injection and Spray Foam Right.”

A high-performance wall for Climate Zone 5/6 (Port Huron is pretty much right on the border between these two climate zones): Per the 2015 Model Energy Code (and Martin’s article about calculating the minimum thickness of rigid foam sheathing), Colleen should think of the this wall as a starting place: 2x6 cavity insulation and R-11.25 exterior rigid foam.


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  1. Johns Manville

1.
Feb 13, 2017 8:40 AM ET

Seems par for the course. I can only imagine the push
by JC72

back if the OP spec'd the house with 2x6's on 24" center.


2.
Feb 13, 2017 10:10 AM ET

easy to narrow down
by itserich

There are a variety of insulating materials, but as the article demonstrates, it is relatively easy to narrow down to one or a few based on cost and environmental impact. I find it hard to beat expanded polystyrene and mineral wool.
---
"In the stud cavities, cellulose, fiberglass, or open-cell foam are more environmentally friendly and cheaper," he adds. "Although they have lower R-values per inch than closed-cell foam, the impact on whole-wall equivalent R-value is pretty small because of the thermal bridging of the studs."


3.
Feb 13, 2017 1:09 PM ET

There are lots of options,but
by Questions4

There are lots of options,but when you know how they work, what the pros and cons are and the costs its not that hard to pin down what you need
That said you need to know more then the average person, you need to know their properties well.


4.
Feb 13, 2017 1:16 PM ET

John Clark
by user-1132906

I guess it depends on local practice. Almost all houses here have been framed with 2"x6" @ 24" oc for decades. It is only recently, with more stringent seismic requirements, that 16" has become more common.


5.
Feb 13, 2017 4:47 PM ET

clarification
by user-6724717

When Dana writes: "A 2x4 wall with 3 inches (R-20) of two-pound closed-cell foam has almost exactly the same thermal performance of a 2x4 wall with 3 1/2 inches (R-13) half-pound open-cell foam, despite the higher center-cavity R, due to the thermal bridging issues" does she mean open cell PLUS exterior rigid? If not, what about open cell helps with thermal bridging?

Many thanks.

-Isaac


6.
Feb 13, 2017 6:00 PM ET

Edited Feb 13, 2017 6:04 PM ET.

Clarification 2
by user-1132906

Dana is not a "she". Dana is the screen name of a team of building scientists who post here collectively.

But seriously:
http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/community/forum/general-questions/28...


7.
Feb 13, 2017 10:56 PM ET

Clarifications
by chrsull

DANA stands for Definitive ANAlysis.

Here's my not-definitive analysis of that comment. Once you fill a 2x4 stud will open cell foam, the open part is so well insulated that a large fraction of the heat leakage is through the studs, not through the foam. So improving the foam doesn't do much good. Neither foam does anything to solve the thermal bridging. That's why the net result is about the same.


8.
Feb 14, 2017 4:55 AM ET

Edited Feb 14, 2017 4:57 AM ET.

More info on open-cell vs. closed-cell between the studs
by user-756436

Isaac,
Closed-cell spray foam is so dense that it is difficult to trim. That's why installers of closed-cell spray foam never fill a cavity completely. In a 2x4 wall, the installer will stop at about 3 inches instead of 3.5 inches, leaving the typical bumpy surface of foam. This type of installation doesn't need to be trimmed.

Open-cell spray foam is easy to trim. Installers of open-cell spray foam fill the 3.5-inch-deep cavity completely, allowing the foam to be proud of the studs. Once cured, it is trimmed flush with the studs.

With closed-cell spray foam, the exposed sides of the studs (the portions that extend inwards beyond the 3 inches of foam) make the thermal bridging penalty worse.

With open-cell spray foam, the sides of the studs are not exposed, lessening the thermal bridging penalty. Even though the open-cell spray foam has a lower R-value per inch, the thermal performance of the wall assembly is better than you might think, because the assembly benefits from the fact that you can completely fill the stud cavities.

-- Martin Holladay


9.
Feb 14, 2017 12:05 PM ET

Re: clarification (response to #5)
by user-1004076

Martin's explanation is correct. With closed cell foam ~3" path through the R1.2/inch wood is about R3.6 for the ~25% framing fraction, whereas with a complete cavity fill the framing fraction is 3.5" deep, good for ~R4.2. The ~R0.6 difference may not seem like much when expressed as R value but the heat transfer is a funcition of 1/R

1/3.6= 0.28

1/4.2= 0.24

0.28/0.24= 1.17 x, or 17% more heat transfer through the framing fraction, which already has a disproportionately high heat transfer than the 75% of the wall area that has cavity insulation at ~4x the R-value of the wood ( or 1/4 the heat transfer per square foot) with 3.5" of open cell foam or ~5x the R value ( or 1/5 the heat transfer per square foot) with the 3" of closed cell foam. With the closed cell foam MOST of the heat transfer through the wall is through the framing fraction.

Put another way, when you factor-in the thermal bridging a 2x4/R13 wall with typical sheathing & siding options has roughly the same heat transfer rates as a continuous R10 insulation or a "whole-wall R" of R10.

A 2x4/R20 wall with 3" of closed cell foam with the same options comes in at about R11 whole-wall, about a 9% reduction in heat flow.

That makes the 3"/ R20 closed cell option a VERY expensive ~R1 compared to other ways of achieving the same whole-wall performance gain, eg: (an additional) 1/4" of continuous foam sheathing, which is an almost negligible cost adder- at most 10 cents per square foot. 3" of closed cell foam costs about $3 per square foot, 3.5" of open cell foam about $1.20 per square foot, so that additional R1 performance for going with closed cell costs about $1.80 per square foot, more than 15x the cost of fattening up a continuous foam layer.


10.
Feb 14, 2017 11:06 PM ET

Edited Feb 15, 2017 12:01 AM ET.

clarification
by user-6724717

Makes perfect sense Martin and DANA ;) ! I gotta say...the information on this site is amazing, so happy to have access to it.

I ask for clarification mainly because my because I am in the midst of a not-so-deep energy retrofit of an old farm house from the 1930s in Long island, and I am about to install 2" of closed cell foam in my 2x6 roof rafters, and the contractor gave me an attractive price to do the same on my exterior walls. My alternative is to use Roxul ComfortBatt at R-15 with a certainteed membrane on the interior side, which I will install myself. I asked the contractor (as well as the other company I got my backup quote from) about using open cell instead of closed on the exterior walls as I read about so often on this site, and both said they wouldn't do it. They seem to be die hard closed cell converts. Is that a bad sign?

-Isaac

PS: Can I put 1/4" continuos foam (i.e. OC fanfold) on the interior of a wall? Between the studs and drywall?


11.
Feb 15, 2017 6:10 AM ET

Response to Isaac Brest
by user-756436

Isaac,
Q. "I asked the contractor (as well as the other company I got my backup quote from) about using open cell instead of closed on the exterior walls as I read about so often on this site, and both said they wouldn't do it. They seem to be die hard closed cell converts. Is that a bad sign?"

A. I wouldn't call it a bad sign. Lots of contractors specialize in certain specific materials. But if you have decided to specify open-cell spray foam, you need to find a contractor who is willing to install it.

Q. "Can I put 1/4 inch continuous foam (i.e. OC fanfold) on the interior of a wall? Between the studs and drywall?"

A. Yes. For more information on this approach, see Walls With Interior Rigid Foam.

-- Martin Holladay


12.
Feb 15, 2017 11:33 AM ET

Exterior only? Double stud?
by user-1121196

1. Given the superiority of continuous external insulation, why insulate the wall cavity at all? Could you just put enough exterior EPS or mineral wool on (even if you might have to build out a ledge for support), use furring strips and long screws (to secure and penetrate to studs) for the siding, and leave the interior cavity insulation-free? Would that be less expensive to do (one labor pass on one side of the wall rather than two)? Or does it violate fire code to have exterior, load bearing walls with open cavities, despite blocking?

2. Also, I've been enamored of mineral wool ever since hearing some Lstiburek talks on insulation/wall assemblies; is it competitive in cost with EPS, as exterior "boards?"

3. If we're talking about insulating a wall cavity, and the complicating factor is thermal bridging, why not consider a double stud wall? 2x4s 24" OC staggered, should be stronger than 2x6, too. Is it significantly more expensive, or hard to find contractors who can do it?

4. On wall cavity insulation, I've seen dense packed cellulose held in by some sort of clear plastic sheeting (for inspection, before the drywall goes up). Doesn't that prevent the "dry-to-the-inside" capability that is supposed to be more attractive for cellulose?


13.
Feb 15, 2017 2:05 PM ET

Response to Stuart Miller
by user-756436

Stuart,
Q. "Could you just put enough exterior EPS or mineral wool on (even if you might have to build out a ledge for support), use furring strips and long screws (to secure and penetrate to studs) for the siding, and leave the interior cavity insulation-free?"

A. Yes. That approach is called PERSIST. For more on the PERSIST approach, see Getting Insulation Out of Your Walls and Ceilings.

Q. "Would that be less expensive to do (one labor pass on one side of the wall rather than two)?"

A. Probably not.

Q. "Or does it violate fire code to have exterior, load bearing walls with open cavities, despite blocking?"

A. Talk to your local code official. Most builders still install drywall on the interior side of the studs.

Q. "I've been enamored of mineral wool ever since hearing some Lstiburek talks on insulation/wall assemblies; is it competitive in cost with EPS?

A. No. It usually costs more. If you can obtain recycled or reclaimed EPS, the price for the EPS will be many times less than the mineral wool

Q. "If we're talking about insulating a wall cavity, and the complicating factor is thermal bridging, why not consider a double stud wall? 2x4s 24" OC staggered, should be stronger than 2x6, too. Is it significantly more expensive, or hard to find contractors who can do it?"

A. Lots of builders specify double-stud walls. For more information, see How to Design a Wall.

Q. "On wall cavity insulation, I've seen dense-packed cellulose held in by some sort of clear plastic sheeting (for inspection, before the drywall goes up). Doesn't that prevent the dry-to-the-inside capability that is supposed to be more attractive for cellulose?"

A. The fabric you are describing is called InsulWeb. It is air-permeable and vapor-permeable, so the answer is: No, it doesn't prevent inward drying. For more information, see How to Install Cellulose Insulation.

-- Martin Holladay


14.
Feb 15, 2017 9:29 PM ET

Closed Cell vs. Driven Wind Infiltration
by user-3014846

A comment; Port Huron sits on a lake, and is definitely well in climate zone 6; you have to go south of Detroit generally to get into 5. It is often subject to extended 50+ mph winds in winter.
Would the air sealing capability of closed cell foam in this climate readjust the decision on insulation use? I am in Detroit, a teeny bit warmer but just as windy so closed cell seems popular for this reason.
Thank you, Mark Reynolds


15.
Feb 17, 2017 10:55 AM ET

Insulation Information Black Hole
by user-6135630

I too have found myself getting sucked down the black hole of insulation information for a new construction. I am going to be building a new home in North Central Massachusetts. The wall will be 2x6 with Zip System Sheathing as my air barrier. I can't decide if I should go with R21 Fiberglass batts, dense cellulose or dense pack fiberglass? The dense packing is coming in at a bit of premium to the batts? Is the dense pack worth the premium? Would I notice a difference between the 3? Would I notice a difference between loose fill cellulose and loose fill fiberglass in my vented attic space? It was pretty obvious that a made sense to use a 12" raised heel truss because I gain Rvalue over the top plate. With this decision I get essentially the same R value and my air barrier is the exterior sheathing.


16.
Feb 17, 2017 11:31 AM ET

Response to Kurtis Cormier
by user-756436

Kurtis,
When comparing cellulose, blown-in fiberglass, and fiberglass batts, the decision always comes down to installation quality. All three of these insulation materials can work well, as long as the team has paid attention to airtightness, and as long as the insulation installers are conscientious.

Conscientious installers of fiberglass batts are quite rare, but they exist. For more information on this issue, see Installing Fiberglass Right.

Blown-in products like dense-packed cellulose or dense-packed fiberglass are harder to screw up than fiberglass batts, but it's possible to screw up anything. You want to choose insulation installers who sound like they know what they are talking about, and who have a reputation for quality work.

-- Martin Holladay


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