1 Helpful?

Serious Windows vs. Thermotech, Fibertec, Inline, Accurate Dorwin

Does anyone have experience with Serious Windows or Canadian fiberglass windows? I'm having a difficult time finding high SHGC windows (with a U-value less than or equal to 0.30) for my passive solar home that are affordable. Looks like the fiberglass windows can give me the performance I'm looking for, but I can't find any local installations to inspect the quality of manufacture.

Asked by Claire Anderson
Posted Oct 1, 2009 10:57 PM ET
Edited Jun 10, 2010 11:29 AM ET


155 Answers

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In case you haven't seen it, my latest blog discusses this question:

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 2, 2009 4:59 AM ET


DUXTON Windows & Doors, a Winnipeg based (north of Minneapolis) manufacturer of fiberglass windows has recently posted a wide range of performance numbers on the "Energy Star Cdn" site (USA still being processed) and I believe you will see a nice mix of SHGC and U values. Where are you located?

Al Dueck, Pres/founder

Answered by Al Dueck
Posted Oct 4, 2009 8:59 AM ET


Hi Al ~

I'm in Oregon.


Answered by Claire Anderson
Posted Oct 4, 2009 11:28 AM ET


I just went through that decision-making process, and ended up getting Serious Windows for my big south-facing clerestories, but Marvin Integrity for the rest of the house. I actually got a tweaked version of Serious' Heatgain 725 (using Starphire(?) glass) which gave a slightly higher SHGC without affecting the U-value. They've just arrived and will be installed in a few weeks, but they seem like they're built well.

I got quotes from Fibertec, Inline, Serious and about 10 other window makers (but not Thermotech or Accurate Dorwin) - Serious was definitely the most expensive (about $60/sqft operable, $40/sqft fixed for their 725 series). Fibertec triple-glazed actually had slightly better performance at a lower cost ($50/sqft operable, $30/sqft fixed), but I was concerned that there are no local dealers. Serious Materials is located about 10 miles from where I live, so I felt if I *did* have any issues, it could be taken care of quickly. If I lived in the northeast, I probably would have gone with Fibertec.

Good luck with your decision. It was tough, since we don't have easy access to that many options here in the US.

Answered by Scott Heeschen
Posted Oct 4, 2009 10:27 PM ET


Hi Scott ~

Thanks for the feedback. I've actually been considering using a combination of the Integrity windows and Serious Windows.

If you had lights in the doors, what doors did you choose? Integrity? Our plan calls for a French slider, and I don't think Serious Windows make those.

Did you go with a painted frame with the oak veneer or with white or a custom color?

One person has remarked that the windows (from the exterior) have a purple cast. Did you experience that?

BTW, if your home is a high-performance home, or near net zero, and you're interested in showcasing it to a national readership, I'd love to consider profiling it for Home Power magazine.


Answered by Claire Anderson
Posted Oct 4, 2009 10:47 PM ET


The patio doors are Integrity outswing French doors. At the time I was making my decisions, Serious did not have their act together regarding their doors, and the word from the dealer I was using was that they didn't look all that great. We tried working with Serious and Eagle together, but Serious nixed that. I hope they have or will soon work out their plan, because it's nice to have other glazing options around.

The Serious windows are all white fiberglass (I was too cheap to go with the wood veneer upgrade) - Integrity is a wood-clad ultrex, which looks pretty nice to me.

I only saw the Serious windows in the warehouse of my window dealer, so can't really comment on the color. When I looked at the samples in the showroom (before ordering) they had some tint, but I don't remember it being any more objectionable that other LoE-type glass.

My hope is to rely much less on the electric and gas utilities than I have in the past, and I've tried to move towards the PassivHaus standard, but I don't expect to meet it. Using PHPP, it looks like I'll come close, but I have no idea if I'm using the program entirely correctly (this whole remodel project has been a learning experience in so many ways). If things work out well, I'll let you know - I've enjoyed my online Home Power subscription and have gotten a few ideas from it along the way.

Answered by Scott Heeschen
Posted Oct 5, 2009 12:52 AM ET


We are a distributor in the Portland area of the Serious window and we do a lot of work at the coast. Serious does have the capability of painting there product to match any color. They have done several jobs to match Marvin colors. But of course this does add cost, where they are already somewhat expensive.

We have samples of both standard glass options in the 725 and 925 series to show the color variation of the glass itself, as well as corner samples, and a full size casement. We have a customer who has installed the product in Happy Valley, OR that is more than happy to be used as a reference and/or show the product installed. Keep in mind the homeowners will be moving in around Thanksgiving. This house has the slate color window with brushed nickel hardware.

We are currently with a builder who is expected to complete the first Passive House Certified home in Oregon and we are supplying this window. However we are still in a quandry regarding hinged doors. If anyone has suggestions I would love to hear them. Unfortunatley the standard products out there don't have the performance numbers we are looking for.

Answered by Kori Fox
Posted Oct 5, 2009 12:03 PM ET


Word of warning, do not use Fibertec. I tried to save a few bucks by not getting Serious windows and paid for it. Poor customer service after the fact. Aside from very late, there was noticeable particles/ fingerprints between panes, gaps in mitered corner molding. Spend a few minutes searching Google and you'll find many complaints.

Answered by Boulder, CO
Posted Oct 7, 2009 1:55 AM ET


Cardinal Glass makes their E179 glass. I was quoted numbers like .60 to .70 SHGC and .29 U-Value. Jeld-Wen uses that glass. So far, I have not been able to find out if Jeld-Wen has tested that glass for a performance value on their window assembly.

Answered by Annette
Posted Oct 7, 2009 8:56 AM ET


I installed Fibertec windows in a Superinsulated house. The Otahal Residence in Asheville NC. Two of the windows were huge about 55" tall and 108" long. I would say that the Fibertec windows were not the highest quality and they were a good value as they are much less expensive that the Thermotech. I will try not to install operable windows that large in the future. This house has been mentioned http://210waynesville.blogspot.com/ and here http://susten.com/?page_id=19 and it will be on the Solar & Green Home tour this Saturday 10 Oct 09 kwh

Answered by Ken Huck
Posted Oct 7, 2009 8:38 PM ET


Probably out of the list, I would chose Inline. Taking everything into consideration and knowing they are all not perfect, the best value(price+quality+service+performance).

West Coast maybe look at Cascadia as well.

Let us know how it turns out.

Answered by Randy
Posted Oct 8, 2009 4:16 PM ET


I installed Themotech casements, a couple of picture windows (one that is quite large) and 8 small awnings for my addition. They are all triple glazed, two panes are low-e and specified to maximize SHG. I have some Marvin double hung windows in the original part of the house, double glazed with one low-e coating. All windows are argon filled.

The Thermotech's were a real pleasure to install, and I have installed a lot of windows working for various contractor's in my varied work life. You don't have to spend much time fiddling with shims to get things aligned and the the fastening flange brings the window in tight to the wall, with flexible membrane sealing the flange to the wall it ends up being a pretty tight seal.

The Truth hardware that Thermotech used on my awnings and casements is solid and high quality gear. The hardware does a very good job of drawing the sash tight to the frame, sealing out air infiltration.

Having experienced very cold nights sitting near either double glazed Marvin's and the triple glazed Thermotech's, I can add that qualitatively the triple glazed windows make a home much more comfortable. You can feel the convection loops churning away with the double glazed Marvin's.

That's my two cent's on Thermotech's. I'd install them again.

A friend used them on one of his projects and the carpenters on that project also remarked how nice the Thermotech's were to install.



Answered by Andrew Henry
Posted Oct 9, 2009 10:07 AM ET


Thermotech's windows are not even Energy Star certified!!! They can claim what they want but can't find a third party who has objectively tested them. Something is not right.

Answered by Steven
Posted Oct 12, 2009 12:11 PM ET


On what basis do you make the claim that Energy Star windows are better than non-Energy Star windows?

The Energy Star window program has always allowed northern climate windows to have any SHGC -- which is nuts. I'd rather have windows with carefully tuned SHGCs than Energy Star windows with very low SHGCs -- windows that were designed for Florida, but are sold up north because no one at Energy Star cares enough to prevent the travesty.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 12, 2009 1:12 PM ET


The Energy Star bias is reflected in the current (2009-2010) federal energy-efficiency tax credits, which apply only to windows with a SHGC of 0.30 or less !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Answered by Robert Riversong
Posted Oct 12, 2009 1:56 PM ET


Right. A while ago I wrote an article on the insanity of the tax credit criteria for windows:

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:02 PM ET


The apparent conspiracy of the federal government and the US window industry in preventing the widespread use of FREE passive solar energy for heating our northern homes reminds me of J.P. Morgan pulling his financing of the work of the greatest genious and inventor of the 20th century, Nicola Tesla, when his experiments were establishing the possibility of transmitting electrical energy across thousdands of miles without the distribution lines that allow corporations and financiers to meter and control it.

When the corporate world finds a way to meter the sun, then we'll see the flowering of passive solar strategies.

Answered by Robert Riversong
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:26 PM ET


At first I was annoyed when I read about the stimulus as it applied to windows (what? SHGC of .3 or less?!?) but I easily spent enough on the non-south-facing windows to get the full benefit. It works out ok, but is a scary precedent. What's the saying? Simplify, but don't over-simplify? Seems like they've tried to make it too simple and not account for good reasons for having high SHGC windows. Plus the .3 U values are pretty wimpy - it'd be nice to see higher incentives for better windows to get progress going on that front, too.

Answered by Scott Heeschen
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:38 PM ET



Obviously you didn't read thoroughly my email. Thermotech's windows have not been tested by any objective third party. They can claim numbers/ratings they want. If they are the best in the world as they claim, PROVE IT! Inside a factory I can tweek a window until I get super ratings as well. But once they submit a window for testing to the NFRC and they can be held to the ratings and performance of everyday production, their claims are merely a personal review in rose colored glasses. How can you compare them to anyone else???

Btw, my car gets 100 miles per gallon... I can state anything but where lies the truth.

I did not state that Energy Star are better than non Energy Star, nor did I make such an outrageous claim. I simply pointed out fact that Thermotech's windows have not been tested by a proper testing facility. Please prove me wrong and if so, I will retract my statement and issue Thermotech an apology. The fact that 80% of windows are Energy Star means that anyone can make the list with a good piece of glass. But if their window is that good, why aren't they?

Please advise.

Answered by Steven
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:40 PM ET


Thermotech Windows have foam-filled framed made of pultruded fiberglass. Their casement and awning windows close tightly with multiple redundant weatherstrips. They use standard glazings with ratings that are easy to verify by consulting the glazing manufacturers.

I have no reason to doubt Thermotech's window specs. However, I've e-mailed their technical director to ask for a response to your challenge.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:50 PM ET


So does, Serious, Marvin, Milgard, Owens Corning, Inline, Accurate, Fibertec, Duxton, Robert, Comfortline, Pella and Cascadia. So what is your point? I can find ratings on virtually everyone else.

I've even heard that Thermotech even pays the $80/opening in Canada for not being Energy Star. This is the similar as our 30/30. Ask them if that is true as well while your at it.......

Answered by Steven
Posted Oct 12, 2009 2:59 PM ET



It's certainly true that we've never felt an affinity to a system that encourages mediocrity, Back in 1999, when we were part of Thermotech Windows, we did 'buckle' and got listed on the NFRC website. The testing was done by Architectural Testing of York PA. The simulations were done by WestLab's Jeff Baker.

The thermal characterisitics on our website are from or consistent with that listing. We didn't renew in 2003 because building officials weren't (and in our experience still aren't) looking for NFRC stickers. More importantly it didn't seem to matter to our customers either.

In the mean time neither the windows nor the laws of physics have changed. And we've continued to refine what we think, albeit arguably – especially with Passiv Haus people - is the most energy efficient window available.

It's because of a Canadian rebate program; not the odd cheerful sentiment from competitors, we will be rejoining. Likely within the month as we're down to the dreaded paperwork. Careful observers might notice that the odd number will get marginally better; a reflection of the larger standard sizes used for these calculations for the last five years or so.

Stephen Thwaites P.Eng.
Technical Director
Thermotech Fiberglass Fenestration

Answered by Stephen Thwaites
Posted Oct 13, 2009 10:21 AM ET


Are you or the Passive Haus people saying that your window is more energy efficient than the Serious Materials window? I'm sure most people would love to see a comparison.

Could you provide us with one?

Answered by Steve
Posted Oct 13, 2009 11:14 PM ET


There's no way to compare two windows to decide which is more "energy efficient." It will ALWAYS be necessary to balance three factors: SHGC, U-factor, and VT. For example: one window may have a very low U-factor. That means that it won't lose much heat on a cold night. But it might also have a very low SHGC — meaning that it won't gain as much heat on a sunny day as a different window with a higher SHGC. The original window might also have a very low VT rating — meaning that although the window is good at resisting heat flow, it is terrible when it comes to admitting light into your home.

Anyone could build a very low U-factor window by assembling 8 panes of glass in a fixed unit. But no one would like to live in a house with this type of glazing, because the SHGC and VT numbers would be too low.

The holy grail window for south elevations in northern climates is a magic window with a very low U-factor, a very high SHGC, and a very high VT. That magic window doesn't exist, so we all have to choose the specs of our windows based on a series of compromises.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 14, 2009 4:58 AM ET


Then why does Thermotech's website say "the World's most Energy Efficient Windows and Doors". Furthermore, Stephen mentioned in the earlier email that Passive Haus also mention the same(response 22, 3rd paragraph)... How are they both able to say that without a comparison? Therefore, by your response no one can claim to have the most energy efficient window, correct?

You must understand that I am just looking for straight answers, nothing more.


Answered by Steve
Posted Oct 14, 2009 11:00 AM ET


Thermotech's claim to make "the World's most Energy Efficient Windows and Doors" is, of course, a marketing slogan — just like Serious Materials claim that their model 1125 window will “save more energy than any other window” is merely a marketing slogan.

Approach such slogans the same way you would any other advertising materials. The real data to look at are the SHGC, U-factor, and VT ratings.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Oct 14, 2009 11:10 AM ET


Don't forget the all-important air leakage rating.

Answered by Robert Riversong
Posted Oct 14, 2009 6:09 PM ET


The question/concern in our minds is - How time-tested is seriouswindow's suspended film technology? I am reassured that serious offers a lifetime warranty on materials, but I don't want to be dealing with failing window units in 3, 5, 10, or 20+ years. In general, we know what happens with glass. How does this film hold up after years in the sun?

Answered by James
Posted Oct 15, 2009 9:15 PM ET


Claire asked way back at comment #5 if the Serious windows had a purplish cast from the exterior. Now that mine have been installed a few days, I can say they do, but it's really minor. With a normal double-pane window, there are two reflections, but with Serious there's a third. The one in the middle has the purplish cast.

Speaking of this, I wonder what effect triple-pane windows have. They can never get the panes perfectly parallel, so those reflections "move" at different rates as you walk by. The third reflection seems to throw me off - I've gotten used to the two from double-pane windows, but am still working on getting used to the third.

Build quality of both the Integrity and Serious seems to be good. Serious has more insulation in the frames, but the sizing of the Integrity frames seemed more consistent. The main frame with the Serious windows were spot on, but they had some large rim on the interior side of the nailing fin that didn't line up perfectly with the frame and varied a little (up to 1/8" or so). That plus the fact we only gave ourselves 1/2" extra for the RO of the windows added up to a little extra work for my contractors, but nothing bad. The Integrity windows, would probably have been fine if the RO were only 1/4" larger. My contractors also commented that the Integrity double outswing french patio door seemed more solid than others they had installed.

I did call Serious with concerns I had heard with previous suspended film windows, and they stated that they pre-stress the films with heat so that they won't buckle or warp due to that. They also reiterated the lifetime warranty. My contractors and I have mused about how well any film material can deal with so much UV. I'm sure they're doing what they can about it, and hopefully it's enough.

Answered by Scott Heeschen
Posted Oct 21, 2009 4:48 PM ET


Speaking to longevity of Serious Glass and comment #28. Serious Materials purchased Alpen Glass in 2008. Alpen Glass has been manufacturing glass units with the heat mirror technology for 28 years. Serious Materials decided to use the technology by putting it into their fiberglass windows. There are numerous high profile projects that have used this glass such as; Viginia Air and Space Mueseum, Smithsonian National Portrait Gallery, Mount Rushmore Visitor Center just to name a few. Serious offers their life time warranty based on 28 years of performance data and history of their product in the market place.
I would also like to say that I have seen the Serious Window installed in a project here in Portland and could not detect any optical effect due to the heat mirror. I realize that I may sound bias however Claire (comments above) also came out to view this project and has decided to purchase it (through us) for her upcoming project.

Answered by Kori Fox
Posted Oct 23, 2009 12:11 PM ET



Not to be a wet blanket, but isn't Serious a different window in disguise. Thermotech is no more than a omni/comfortline window and serious a window pultruded buy another window company rebranded as their own.

When are people going to realize the truth....there are only 5 true pultruders of fiberglass windows:Marvin, Milgard,Inline ,Omni and Comforltine. The rest are all just fabricators of the same window rebranded as their own.

Btw, I believe that Comfortline is on the verge of bankruptcy. Carefull on the warranty....

If you want more on who is is, more info, jweitz1@hotmail.com,

Answered by Steve
Posted Oct 25, 2009 1:38 AM ET


Yes Serious uses pultrusions produced by Inline. However I fail to see what this proves. Most window manufacturers purchase their lineals from someone else. Serious Windows is the only one that insulates these frames, utilizes the suspended film technology (with long record), and puts this all together in a high performance, reliable product.

Are you saying that windows should only be purchased from a manufacturer that produces their own lineals? I fail to see this as an option if you want the performance and desire to purchase a product produced in the US.

Answered by Kori
Posted Oct 25, 2009 5:33 PM ET


Hold the presses!!! Kori are you stating that Serious is the only company that insulates the fiberglass frames??? You have to be joking. Most companies have been around longer and have suspended film technology and therefore more reliable or YOU would have exposed them.

Answered by Kevin
Posted Nov 7, 2009 5:11 AM ET


Anyone know what happened to Thermotech's website?? Seems it has gone missing...

Answered by Garth Sproule
Posted Nov 10, 2009 12:55 AM ET


thermotechwindows.com seems to be up at 9:19pm PST

Answered by Scott Heeschen
Posted Nov 10, 2009 1:20 AM ET


They used to be at www.thermotechfiberglass.com and there used to be a lot more info on the website including U values and SHGC for various glass types. Is this really the same company?

Answered by Garth Sproule
Posted Nov 10, 2009 9:45 AM ET


The www.thermotechfiberglass.com Web site is down. I just spoke to Stephen Thwaites -- he says that he is working to solve the glitch, and the Web side should be back up in 24 hours or less.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Nov 10, 2009 9:58 AM ET


Thank you Martin. I am still confused as to who www.thermotechwindows.com is. This website and www.thermotechfiberglass.com both appear to be using the same houses as references, the Hanover house, the Dumont residence, and the Katrin Klingenberg Passivhous....

Answered by Garth Sproule
Posted Nov 10, 2009 8:41 PM ET


The Thermotech Web site (http://www.thermotechfiberglass.com) is back up. The landing page explains that Thermotech has been split into two companies. If you want to read Stephen Thwaites technical information, stick with the Thermotech Fiberglass Web site, not the Thermotech Windows Web site.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Nov 11, 2009 7:22 AM ET


I'm not saying they are THE only company that insulates frames. Just the only American made (yes I know where the pultrusions come from). I don't understand what you are trying to say about suspended film? Again this glass has been made by this company (formerly Alpen) for 28 years. This is more than an adequate history for performance and longevity. I am happy to forward a longevity report ti anyone interested. There are very high profile projects with this glass. (Smithsonian, Mt. Rushmore Visitors Center, and many more). I am unaware of anyone else that has this kind of history with suspended film.

Answered by Kori
Posted Nov 11, 2009 1:04 PM ET


I read through this post. Lots of strong opinions. As a large supplier of many different brands of windows of various materials, here is the sad truth; 1: glazing options from most manufacturers are not good at all, and tuning your window for climate region or solar orientation is difficult, at best. 2: the largest of manufacturers, with the resources to drive appreciable change, offer little in the way of glazong options. Smallrt producers of high performance windows operate on a model similar to small vinyl window manufacturers. They are fabricators. So to the point about Serious materials "only" being a fabricator, I offer you this (I am NOT a Serious Windows Distributor); Would you not agree that the assembly of well chosen products is the most important facet of window manufacturing? You can choose the most efficient insulation in the marketplace, but if it is installed poorly, it has done the homeowner no good. As a side, there is a bill now pending to tie the tax credit U/SHGC values to Energy Star updated criteria; A step in the right direction. Support this bill Rockefeller/Grassley sopnsored, as it is the best way to drive market availability of high performance glazings. Want proof? I wonder if anyone has Cardinal's sales reports for #366 glass for 2q and 3q of this year over last? The large window manufacturers will respond only to market demand, and remember, they're the ones with large R&D departments (and budgets).

Answered by T.C. Feick
Posted Nov 12, 2009 10:40 AM ET


For the website try www.ttwindows.com

Answered by Anonymous
Posted Nov 23, 2009 12:15 PM ET


Nope, that link -- www.ttwindows.com -- is a different company that makes vinyl windows. It has nothing to do with Thermotech Windows of Ottawa, Ontario, a company that makes windows with fiberglass frames.

Answered by Martin Holladay
Posted Nov 23, 2009 12:33 PM ET


Just to clear up some confusion.......

In 2005 Thermotech Windows Ltd. was split into two, now unrelated except by history, companies.

a) Thermotech Windows Ltd.; resells windows and doors to the Ottawa, Ontario area.

b) Thermotech Fiberglass Fenestration Ltd.; makes and sells fiberglass framed windows and doors locally, nationally and internationally.

Hope that helps

Stephen Thwaites
Thermotech Fiberglass Fenestration Ltd.

Answered by Stephen Thwaites
Posted Nov 24, 2009 11:30 AM ET


So both companies sell Thermotech fiberglass windows, right? I just checked both websites, you really have me confused?

Answered by Randy
Posted Nov 24, 2009 10:49 PM ET


Where are you located? I am a serious window dealer in the portland or area,and would be happy to show you some installations.

Answered by J Yosso
Posted Dec 17, 2009 11:47 PM ET


Sounds like you had some great options...a few years back we installed Accurate Dorwin fibreglas windows on the whole north face of our two storey Winnipeg, MB home..along with a couple of others along the south and east side...these were by far the best windows we ever had...tremendous strength and quality...the service and installation experience was the best trades related experience we have had in 25 plus years of building/renovating. The windows were triple pane, low E, argon filled units that cut out neighborhood noise and eliminated drafts. We have recently built a new home and our Jeldwen vinyl windows are terrible in comparison.

Answered by Stan
Posted Jan 2, 2010 3:19 PM ET


We are about to build our retirement home and I have been researching window for about the last six months. Serious Windows continues to come up to the top of our list for all of the performance data. Our disadvantage of being in the Midwest is that we are pretty much buying these windows on blind faith...there are no local installations in our area that we can see. That makes our Architect and builder very nervous. Can anyone help ease our fear of buying windows over the internet? Who spends $55,000 without ever seeing what they are about to get?

Answered by Monica
Posted Jan 28, 2010 1:51 AM ET



Where in the midwest? I have Serious Windows in the house I am building and would be happy to show them to you/talk about them. The house is in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. I know the dealer also did another house in north central Wisconsin.

Answered by Donald Lintner
Posted Jan 28, 2010 3:55 PM ET


I arrived here looking for some information about Serious windows. Is it going to be a viable window manufacturer 50 years hence? Apparently they are doing a lot of research, creating very energy efficient/expensive windows, but most of us are not in that market. The question most of us have is who is providing the most bang for the buck, quality of manufacture, durability, and energy efficiency. The windows I'm considering replacing and have replaced were installed a hundred years ago. Yes, they were maintained, painted, glazing replaced, rechaulked, etc. Now, apparently, for energy savings we have to throw away our windows every 20 years and get new ones. To my knowlege, no one manufactures a sash where when the glass seal fails, or the glass gets broken all you need do is go to your local hardware store and buy new glass. As for being green, the direction window manufactures have taken us appears to be contradictory. What are the energy cost of manufacture and how much oil is being consumed to manufacture all this plastic. I don't know, maybe it is just a by-product supporting the gas consumed on the road.

I do know, back in the early 1900s there were standards, and glass sizing was largely consistent. If a window gets broke in my house I go to the hardware store and he pulls a piece of glass out of a box and gives it to me. He doesn't have to cut it; the size is common. In my opinion, green needs to take the whole picture into account, including manufacture, maintenance, and product life.

Sorry, a bit off subject.

Answered by Anonymous
Posted Jan 30, 2010 8:13 AM ET

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