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Adding insulation and new ductwork in a Kansas attic

RogerMarrs | Posted in General Questions on

I live in an 1800 sq. ft. 20 year old single story ranch on a slab. I’m located just outside of Kansas City, KS in climate zone 4A. I want to increase the attic insulation, but before doing so, I wanted to improve the duct work in the attic since the builder did a really poor job with both the design and the install.

The house has 2 x 4 walls with 2 x 4 ceiling and roof trusses. I have 320 sq ft of raised floor (9″ off the attic floor) storage down the middle of the attic. The return air is currently 100% flex while the supply has some rigid trunk but is mostly flex as well. I plan to replace the existing duct work with a 16 x 8 return trunk with short runs of 8″ flex to the individual returns (6 existing, plus one new return). One the supply side I plan to use rectangular trunk with 6″ flex (R-6 or R-8) branches. None of the flex branches will be more than 20′ long, and most will be less than 15′ long.

I would like to take the attic insulation up to at least R-50. The existing insulation is loose fill fiberglass, but only about 8″ – 9″ deep, some areas where repairs were done in the past has even less.

All of the branch ducts will be running parallel with the ceiling trusses, while the trunks will lay across the ceiling trusses. I had been planning to just run the flex between the truss bays in contact with the sheetrock attic floor/ceiling, and then cover it all with enough fiberglass insulation to get to R-50.

However, the more I read on this site and others, the more confused I have become. As I understand it, if I lay the flex on the sheetrock and cover it up even to an R-50 level, then I risk having the flex sweat in the summer time creating potential mold and moisture problems.

Is that actually a risk in my part of the country? Can I just bury flex with fiberglass and be OK? Alternatively, can I enclose the flex (and trunk lines) in some kind of airtight chase built out of sheetrock or rigid foam and then cover that with loose fill insulation? Or is it more economical to cover the flex with spray foam, rather than fabricate some type of chase for the supply ducts. Since I haven’t done this type of work before, maybe there is an obvious reason building the airtight chase on the attic floor won’t work. I don’t see why I couldn’t just build a chase out of 1″ or 2″ xps, lay the flex duct inside, close the “box” with another piece of xps, tape and spray foam the seams, and cover that with all the insulation I want. However, I haven’t been able to find any discussion about that type of approach on this or any other site.

I’ve read on this site about sealing the attic with spray foam at the roof, instead of insulating the attic floor. The roof has an 8/12 pitch with two dormers so I would have about 2500 sq. ft. or more of roof to cover, versus upgrading the existing attic insulation.

Any help I can get understanding how to best accomplish this project would be greatly appreciated. I plan to live in this house another 20 to 30 years, but really need to improve the energy efficiency.

Roger

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Replies

  1. GBA Editor
    Martin Holladay | | #1

    Roger,
    If you install insulated ducts (that is, flex ducts with insulation and an exterior vapor-barrier cover), your plan should work. However, if you use uninsulated galvanized ductwork for your trunk lines, you could have problems. The galvanized ductwork will be quite cold in the summer. Since your blown-in fiberglass insulation is air-permeable, the moisture in the hot, humid attic air will condense on the cold ductwork and drip.

    The best way to minimize the possibility of condensation problems in attic ductwork is to insulate the ducts with spray polyurethane foam. That works, but it is expensive.

    You are correct that another solution to this dilemma is to install spray foam on the underside of your roof sheathing in order to create an unvented conditioned attic. More information on that option can be found here: Creating a Conditioned Attic.

  2. RogerMarrs | | #2

    Martin,
    I have some questions with regard to the spray foam option on the metal ducts. I assume that the metal trunk has to be completely covered with closed cell foam. If so, can the trunk sit on top of of some xps or polyiso or similar moisture barrier material and then spray foam applied to the top and sides to completely seal the ductwork? I ask because it seems like it would be really difficult to spray the bottom side with the 3.5" of clearance that would exist. I've been looking for specific installation details for this approach without much success.

    Does the spray foam eliminate the need to seal the joints with mastic since the foam will create an air seal?

    I should mention that I had been planning to wrap the metal trunks with duct wrap insulation. In other words, I wasn't planning to cover bare metal ducts with loose fill insulation. It seems like the spray foam would be more effective way to insulate the trunk than to use the duct wrap. Is that correct?

  3. GBA Editor
    Martin Holladay | | #3

    Roger,
    Q. "Can the trunk sit on top of of some XPS or polyiso or similar moisture barrier material and then spray foam applied to the top and sides to completely seal the ductwork?"

    A. Yes -- that's a good plan. You should seal the seams of the rigid foam with a high-quality tape before installing the duct on top of the rigid foam. Foil-faced polyiso is easier to tape than XPS.

    Q. "Does the spray foam eliminate the need to seal the joints with mastic since the foam will create an air seal?"

    A. Yes.

    Q. "It seems like the spray foam would be more effective way to insulate the trunk than to use the duct wrap. Is that correct?"

    A. Yes.

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