Need green septic system – no drain fields – Fast!
We’re fighting a battle with the FL Dept. of Health. Our 50-year-old house was destroyed during Tropical Storm Fay, we demolished it to build a totally green home. Initially we were told we were grandfathered.
Their issues:
1. The site plan submitted indicates that the property does not contain enough suitable unobstructed land for installation and proper function of the system.
2. Systems and Septic stabilization facilities shall be placed no closer than seventy-five feet from a private potable well.
3. Systems shall not be located under a building or within 5ft of building foundations.
4. There shall be a minimum 5 ft. separation between the side wall of the absorption area and the elevated building.
Any help, guidance would be appreciated!
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Replies
Michaela
In a situation like this you will do well to hire an independant soil scientist to evaluate your property and make specific recommendations. There are "innovative" systems that may allow you to fit a septic on a smaller footprint. We often use infiltrator systems from Hancor for this. They also make the components for our rain gardens though they are certainly not a "green company" just a company that makes components that are useful in green systems.
Each municipality has it's own set of rules and a local scientist will have a good handle on them. You may even find that your local health department will give you a list of people who have done this kind of work in your county. Be prepared to pay $200 per hour with a three hour minimum.
Michael, Thanks for the information. My husband went to the state Variance committee mtg yesterday and we were denied. However now we are looking at a Performance Based system with drip line drain field - however it may necessitate us taking down #2-3 200 year old oak trees! :-(
The local and state Health Departments are not consistent - unfortunately what works in one county doesn't always work in another! But we are plowing forward! Thanks again!
Keep us posted on your experience Michaela, this is a great topic for an article (Green Septic Systems) and actual experiences with local health departments is great information for readers.
Good luck,
Dan
This of any help?
toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/Plumbing/aerobic-wastewater-treatment
And, IMHO anyway, a site well worth reading all of just because it is a great site with a lot of information and some interesting concepts.....
thenaturalhome.com
thenaturalhome.com/septic.html
thenaturalhome.com/greywater.html
thenaturalhome.com/compost.html
1. You could install a NSF Class I a mechanical aerobic waste water treatment system, we use Delta Fiberglass out of Louisiana units. They use little electric, are made of fiberglass (better than concrete that will decay). Also the long term maintenance is cheaper because it is a simple unit. The water can be directly discharged if it is monitored or you could get a local septic person willing to learn how to apply our Truly Green Septic maintenance and Repair process . You can learn more about it by going to our website: wwwamericanseptic.com or calling 1 866 999 1766 and ask for John. This process is Truly Green, because it creates oxygen for a non mechanical aerobic microbial waste water treatment process. This process will qualify for Carbon Credits if the Proposed CAP & Trade Agreement passes. It qualifies because no methane or Hydrogen sulfide goes up through the Roof vent to the ozone just like topper with the mechanical aerobic system but where we are different we don’t use carbon foot print electric to do it.
2. The well water encroachment problems are solved by installing a water filtration system that consist of a water softener that back washes with Potassium bad mineral, chlorinator (not a UV light) to remove all bad bacteria and a carbon filter to revive the chlorine and other harmful chemicals, the chlorine will also kill the bacteria that grows in the carbon. In fact you should have this type system no matter what.
3. We are allowed to encroach the 5’ rule if there is no basement or if the system is deeper then the basement/crawl space.
Green septic system with no drain field? Traditionally, that's called an outhouse. Ironically, an outhouse is probably more environmentally benign than a conventional septic system, since private septic systems are the primary source of groundwater pollution in the US.
Robert, your reply made me laugh - as it really is true! But somehow don't think it will fly with the City or Health Department. In the end.... the Health Department FINALLY gave us a variance! So THAT
problem is solved... now it's all the typical construction problems associated with building!
Thanks for everyone's input!
Hey this is a great info site, thanks. I have a question though. I plan on moving to upstate NY, close to Canada. Its absolute no mans land. No utilities whatsoever. Im going to build a completely sustainable house. Of course septic comes into play. For the time while it is being built, Im going to live in a camper. (roughing it! YAY!). And a thought comes to mind. If I live on 5 acres of no mans land, surrounded by 100's of acres of STATE forest, why is it that important for a septic system? I mean large herds of animals , um VERY large animals, are up there doing their business, and have been for years upon years. Could it be that septic systems are a result of the monetary system, and actually are not that important? I can understand organization plans for humans to develop waste systems, but for a very rural area? IT seems to be money grabbing to me.
Robert,
Of course it's possible to build and use a safe, sanitary outhouse. I lived with an outhouse for years. (I think Robert Riversong still does, but I'm not sure.) In 1974, I built a composting outhouse with a masonry foundation, following plans by Sim Van Der Ryn (reviewed in the Whole Earth Catalog, I think). Visitors were so impressed with the design that I was hired to build an outhouse of the same design at a friend's house.
Ive spoken to a woman who built the first monolithic home in upstate NY, using the airform blue prints and designs from monolithic.com of course, and she said, the NY authorities absolutely denied her to use a compost system. She was FORCED to dig and put in septic. Which makes no sense to me, but the authorities claim was that they could not be sure that she was going to use it properly. Use it properly? WOW. How ridiculous. Here is a woman who's lifes work has been having an environmentally sound structure, complete with radiant, solar etc, and they are worried about this
100 pound woman not using a toilet correctly? What about the 20 billion herds of animals that are live up there?
Is that legal? Can't you be sent to the doghouse for building an outhouse?
R.B.
Come on! There aren't really 20 billion herds of animals in NY. And they all know how to go to the bathroom.
I suspect that most states are reluctant to make exceptions with regard to septic systems. Even "green" Vermont allows only a 25% reduction in leach field area if there is a compost toilet in lieu of flush toilet, since they consider laundry and kitchen sink effluent to be blackwater (because of high organic loading). Massachusetts allows a 40% leach field reduction with no flush, but still requires a 1000 gallon septic tank.
It is possible to engineer an expensive constructed wetlands with aerated peat prefilter for a graywater system, but it's going to be cost-prohibitive for most home-owners and requires knowledgeable and conscientious maintenance.
Fortunately, Vermont has become more lenient about fitting a septic system into a small, non-conforming lot, since they'd rather have a minimally functional system than whatever's been in the ground (or not) for generations.
We're running into this same problem in TN. Found a 5 acre lot we want to build on, but it has very rocky soil and will NOT perc. We've been researching ATU systems, but seems like they all still need some kind of drainage field. Is there not a system out there that completely cleans the effluent? Would using two ATU systems back to back work? Could ya pair an ATU with a mound system? How about using the effluent for the sprinkler system water? There has GOT to be a way to get an alternative system approved by the Health Dept/Ground Water Dept!! The land has been used for horses for years and, as mentioned in previous posts, they releive themselves w/o any kind of septic system. We want to protect the ground water and environment as much as the Health/Ground Water Depts. so any further advice or help would be greatly appreciated.
Oh, also just wondering if anyone knows if most State/City Sewer Plants release any effluent that's not 100% clean into the environment and if so the percentage. Just wanta make sure we're all playing with the same rule book.
We ended up using a HOOT septic system for our Platinum LEED home in Jacksonville, FL. It required a 100' x 9 ft drain field but it's been excellent! And the drain field is planted with blue eyed love grass which is beautiful when it blooms. http://www.hootsystems.com
Any new technology for limited site space septic tanks? I see most posts here are from 2010 and earlier. I've been denied spetic tank permit in N.C. because I don't have enough drain field space to the edge of the neighbor's property. Are there and new septic tank technologies that have a minimal sized drian field? I have about 40' available. Health department says drain fields must be 60' minimum....plus 10' clearance to neighbor property.
Dennis,
You should check out the Septic and Leach Field Systems section in GBA's Product Guide. GBA lists alternative septic equipment from 11 suppliers.
Dennis, I don't k now if you've evaluated http://www.hootsystems.com, but we found them to be extremely helpful and think they may have a solution, if you contact them directly. We found this element to be one of the most difficult in building our Platinum LEED home, due to the zoning changes over the years; i.e. proximity to wells, neighbors, etc. I wish you luck!