Ideas for this floorplan
Hi all! I’m new to the site here and was hoping to gather some feedback, or to change my plan altogether.
I’d like to build a ranch on a basement with plenty of southern glazing. I found the attached plan as a starting point but I’m afraid that if I move forward, I’ll just spend a bunch of money creating blueprints only to find that I needed to change something after the fact.
The site I purchased is an open farmland, so I have an empty sandbox to play in. It’s on the east side of a north-south road, so I will enter the property on the west side of the house. I saw a very astute comment about placing the entry to the garage on the south to melt snow which really makes me think there’s much much more I’m not thinkin about. I like the attached floorplan, but it is a bit big. I’d face the dinette/sun room and great room due south.
I’d love to receive feedback, comments, and suggestions from anyone who can either help me make this work, or suggest a completely new floorplan. Since I’m putting in a basement which I will finish, I don’t quite need 2000+ sq. ft. above, but it is nice.
[IMG]http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc320/drewbad/SolarHome/Capture_zpsu85gly3u.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
GBA Detail Library
A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part
Replies
Drew,
A few reactions:
1. The dining room location isn't ideal from a thermal performance perspective, because there is a big thermal penalty associated with a bump-out like that. (It increases the surface-to-volume ratio.) Eating all your meals in a sunroom may not be what you want -- a sunroom can feel cold on cloudy days, both emotionally and physically, and the glare can be overwhelming on sunny days.
2. I don't like the bump-out required for the basement stairs.
3. If you care about indoor air quality, a detached garage is preferable to an attached garage.
A house with 10+ corners has a LOT of avoidable thermal bridging from the corner framing!
Heat loss is a function of exterior surface area. You could get lot more square feet of living space at the same amount of exterior surface area by moving some walls out to eliminate some of those corners.
See what you can do within 6 corners ( an L shaped topology) or 8 corners (a T shaped topology.)
If you count both inside and outside corners, and if you exclude the garage, the plan has 18 corners.
If you include the garage, it has 22 corners.
Drew,
The first thing you have to establish is what your goals are, what you want the house to do for you, and communicate those goals. Apparently, you would like to maximize the use of free energy from the sun--but that's really just an assumption, based on your post.
The floor plan looks like one that would be offered by many developers these days. The builders don't care much about using the sun efficiently, or energy efficiency beyond energy codes, and the buyer doesn't get an empty sandbox to play in.
This GBA website and others offer an amazing amount of "homework" to do and learn from. But, it is amazing to me how many people pop on here and ask really deep questions, when it is obvious that they haven't done any homework at all--or maybe the dog ate it.
The empty sand box is to be cherished, because you do have control over orientation, wall area/volume considerations, passive/active solar design, and many other variables. Many of us out here (not building professionals) have not had the luxury of an empty sandbox. Please do as much
homework as you can find time for.
Martin- I stop counting at 10 (not enough digits without taking my socks off :-) ) at which I already know it needs to be simplified!
The same architectural drama of bump outs and random corner can be achieved with exterior porches/covered patios, etc or changing cladding/siding types to define boundaries/shapes. It doesn't have to be a shoe-box with a gable, but keeping it simple makes it easier to air seal, has a lower exterior/floor area ratio, and far less thermal bridging.
Even if it's still attached separating the garage from the house with a breezeway does a lot for mitigating air quality or fire spread issues, and clarifies where the pressure & thermal boundary of the house is.
Drew,
You've already received a lot of good advice so I'll just offer a few additional thoughts.
First of all, your plan has some very nice features that I presume you were drawn to. As a planning tool, jot down the things you like most about this plan and carry those forward as you revise the plan to fit your list of priorities, as previously suggested.
Others nailed it on the issue of corners. I have often used the saying: "corners cost," and that was before my interest in energy performance housing. All of those jogs and corners will add construction costs in the form of material waste and labor to every step of your project (excavation, foundation, framing, sheathing, drywall, flooring, trim, roofing, soffit, gutters, etc, etc, etc). You pay for that corner many times over! Additionally, the integrity of the thermal, air and water barriers will be complicated and likely compromised. As previously stated, the surface area/volume will increase your heating and cooling loads considerably. All that said, you probably don't want your home to be a boring cube structure. The challenge is to create an efficient, fairly simple, building envelope that has the desired flow to its floor plan and an interesting, attractive exterior. It can be done with creativity and persistence. Your plan has a ways to go.
I like the angled presentation to the garage. Depending on how the home is oriented to the driveway, this feature can return a visitors focus to the more attractive entrance of the home rather than the ugly maw of a two-car garage door. I would agree, however, with the previous recommendation to detach the garage. A breezeway is a practical alternative with the bonus of adding some outdoor, screened leisure space or a mud room. A breezeway can join the structures in a manner that doesn't compromise the thermal/air/water barrier of the home.
Do you really need to have all of that basement? That's a lot of added conditioned volume that will make for lousy living space or storage area. I know that its hard to break from tradition but it really doesn't make sense anymore, particularly for a ranch home. Consider an insulated slab foundation or, if the site is sloped, a partial basement with egress and windows for the mechanicals and/or a bonus room. The last vestige of rationale for basements is for ducts and mechanicals, but new and effective approaches to conditioned attics mutes that argument.
I presume from your comment about ice in front of the garage that you live in a cold climate. If so, Martin's concern about your dinette is on-point. It struck me this room could be a candidate for expandable living space that is outside the thermal envelope of the home but accessible, via french doors, for use during mild weather and when entertaining, much like a three season porch. This concept is a good way to occasionally add living space while maintaining a cozy efficient floor plan.
A final bit of advise is to enjoy the planning process and don't get too attached to any one plan as none are perfect. If you don't have a few re-dos, you aren't trying. You'll find the optimal plan an the end of a long trail of crumpled paper. Best of luck.
Ed
I appreciate the feedback. I was wondering how you all felt about the dining bump out.
Putting the corner datum into an empirical number sure changes my perspective a bit. I'm going to take what I like from this design, toss the remainder and start with a more rectangular design.
As for my goals, I'm after a mostly open floor plan, 3 beds, 2 baths with a decent sized kitchen and living area. Dining can be small. I don't need huge bedrooms, but wouldn't mind a good sized master bath w/WIC.
I really like the idea of covered porches/patios to gain eye-appeal. The property is located in zone 6a tucked just under Lake Erie in Ohio, about 20 miles south. I enjoy being out of doors from spring through fall so I would take full advantage of these features.
I would like to have an attached garage for an idea I have regarding cooling utilizing the warmer night's cool air and an attic fan. I'll still have an ERV, but the idea I had in my mind was to seal the house and stick a whole-house ceiling fan in the conventionally insulated attached garage. In other words, the garage wouldn't be part of the thermal envelope of the house. I could then pull cool air through the house by opening windows on the opposite end of the house, open the garage door and turn on the ceiling attic fan. I'm not compromising the envelope with the door shut. However I do find the idea of using a breezeway as a screened outdoor space appealing, so that really has me thinking, too.
I'll bone up on a conditioned attic but my aim was for a simple raised heel truss with scads of insulation.
It's back to the drawing board. I appreciate the comment about making this process a positive one. I have plenty of time to think about this as the land will cost me only a few hundred/year in taxes so it's not too big of a rush.
Not that it matters on the floor plan, but none of OH is in zone 6A. All of the Lake Erie shore region (and most of the state) is 5A.
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/sites/default/files/images/DOE%20climate%20zone%20map.preview.jpg
The climate zone will matter more as you design your wall & roof/attic stack-ups.
Another thing to bear in mind on new construction is unbroken roof pitches with reasonable sun access for future rooftop solar. If you can put all the vents & plumbing stacks etc on a north facing pitch rather than south facing pitch it gives you more rooftop acreage for photon farming. At the rate the cost of solar is falling it will be the cheapest source of electricity of any type by 2030, so even if you don't put it up on day-1 it's nice to preserve the option. Specifying the trusses for the additional loading capacity now and having it already in the documentation will save you a grand in analysis when that time comes to exercise that option. It's worth running through the checklist while you're still working out the floor plan:
https://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/bldrs_lenders_raters/rerh/docs/Renewable_Energy_PV.pdf?442a-1e83
Hey thanks Dana! Apparently, I was looking at a plant hardiness zone where I found 6A.
Good deal on the solar. I definitely planned to have a good amount of roof area for solar. I have solar now--all self installed. I have a few panels on a shed roof and another few on a solar tracker that I built so I'm definitely in the game in that respect. It all sits on a rack rail driven through shingles. I haven't looked into mounting options on a metal roof, but I'm sure there are nice systems that mount to the raised seams instead of penetrating holes like I did on my roof.
Being some comfy Adirondack chairs to the site. Go with your significant other if you have one, and spend time there on varied days of the calendar and in various weather and various times of the day. Before I built, I made sure to spend time on the solstices and equinoxes and at all sorts of times both day and night in order to determine what the sun and sky was doing on my site. After clearing tress and mulching the general area, I started putting up stakes. I not only watched but I listened. To the traffic from the interstate (I87) which is 2.8miles east. I did this at different times. I visualized the neighbors homes where and when they would go up. Although quite some distance I wanted to know what kind of activities might annoy them form 500 feet away, and how I might avoid that. I planned for privacy, sun, shade, noise, and then I started thinking about what my mornings were like and what my evenings were like, and how I wanted the sun to enter my spaces at those times of day depending on season. Watching tv in the late afternoon during the Christmas Day John Wayne film festival? Do you like glare on the screen on one of the lowest sun days of the year? Or don't you turn on tv during the day? How about breakfast? I like mine in the screen room in summer. How much sunlight do you want? Do you eat dinner there in summer too? Maybe that is the time I want less sun in that space so I don't overheat... So as I did all this I began laying the house out where she stood. I was able to draw a floor plan and a rather simple looking house with overhangs and pope he's that is SITE SPECIFIC. No plan in a book would do. That is what I recommend you do. Do it custom, not a plan out of a book.
.
Joe - excellent feedback, sir!
I have already spent time at the site, specifically for the noise of traffic and for the orientation of the views and I'm starting to decide where on the lot I will place the house. I will have no problems with needing to clear trees - there are none in the way.
The neighbor's house to the south is a friend of mine--that's how I was informed of the property being sold. He also owns the triangular lot to the north of the creek. I'm keeping my house back further in the case that someone in the future builds on that lot. He says he'll never sell it, but if he ever does, I would hopefully have a chance to purchase that lot at some point.
I'm not much of a TV viewer, especially during the warmer season when I'm out of doors most of the time. My girlfriend and I love having coffee and breakfast in the morning outside and love to BBQ on the weekend and weeknights.
Here's some of my thoughts of the views. I mocked up a silly picture of the site:
-Northeastern porch, view to neighbor's horses to north. Also view to sunrise across farmland and potential horses on own lot to the east. (Girlfriend currently boards a horse)
-eastern porch, view to sunset. You will notice that I don't yet have a garage. I need to get creative here and find a way to attach a garage and a patio/deck. There's nothing better than watching the sun go down on a good night.
-Southern view from house and future pergola/patio: tree lined creek, blocking view of neighbor's house during foliage.
Pole barn - I'm trying to find a position for a pole barn. My initial thoughts are to the northwest of the house.
Drew,
I'd urge you to work up simple elevations and a roof layout for the plan you are starting with. Working up a plan in isolation - especially if you spend a lot of time refining it and get attached to the way the spaces go together - can cause real problems, because it means you have to make compromises to the way the house will look to maintain the plan. A house is a three dimensional object and needs to be designed with that in mind.
All of the previous advice is excellent. This seems a reliable feature of this website!
I call my approach designing from the inside out: I start with how I want to experience living inside the house. The outside can then be dressed up the way a present can be wrapped, and the plan tweaked to improve the package. Most plans these days seem to choose form over function when they emphasize how the house will look from the street.
Malcolm also has an extremely important tip: think structure as you design, lest you come up with something that is not pragmatically build-able! One method is to block out the spaces you want before you fill in the details.
Reading your comment No. 11, I suspect you may like to read Patterns of Home by Jacobson et al. This book provides an excellent basis for thinking about issues that will contribute to a home that wears like a favorite coat on a cold day. For example, I think it is important that almost every room—but especially the public rooms (living room, etc.)—have windows on two sides. I note that your plan has a living room that is almost all interior space, even though you have views to every side. Other important considerations are sunlight; scale (e.g. avoiding living rooms that feel like a hotel lobby); communication between the parts; transitions; and retreats (a private space like an office or shop). The book details many other attributes that make a home feel livable in a way that operates on an almost archetypal level.
If something is important to you, like a bump-out that feels like a sunroom on nice days, it may be worth investing in. I feel that the extra cost of another corner for example, if amortized over the years you expect to enjoy it, really isn't such a big hit. You can often still make your budget if you opt for cheaper finishes that you can then replace later with something nicer. In my experience, the things that cost more but please me greatly also make for a considerably higher resale value. These tend to be the intangibles that realtors often don't recognize. Realtors measure square footage and check for a granite counter, and are often surprised when the house sells for considerably more than they thought because the buyer loves how livable it is.
In other words, create the house you want to live in. I believe this is the primary thing that will make the house last for generations. And consider talking to a professional, who has invested a lifetime in learning details you don't know to think about.
I also believe, like everyone else here does, that it is absolutely worth investing in the things no one will see: the insulated slab, the airtight construction, the wall and roof assemblies that will keep the sheathing dry! Finally, it is worth investing the few extra dollars to upgrade the resilience of your home to extreme weather.
Drew,
Have you perused Energy Star house plans? Designing from ground up can feel overwhelming at times and the if you're like me you'll have to keep re-sale in mind. There are many websites that offer Energy Star/"Green" House plans and all of the plans can be modified to your liking. Some even, for a nominal fee, provide you access to estimations with regards to cost-to-build (RESNET).
Chris,
I have not researched this yet and I appreciate this feedback. I'll ask Mr. Google about this shortly.
I'm also moving away from double wall stick built thinking and starting to look at SIP panels for a construction method. The nearest producer near me that I'm aware of is Insulspan. Although they offer thicker walls, they claim there's no need for anything more than their 6.5" wall @ R24. That's about half of what I was aiming for with a double wall design so I've plenty to think about, and plenty of time to ponder.
I probably sound like a spazz all over the place with the thoughts, and I am, but this is also an excellent discovery process as I bring all the facets together. Everyone's feedback thus far has provided value which I certainly appreciate.
In terms of target whole-assembly performance, take a look at the zone 5 row in table 2, p10 of this document:
http://buildingscience.com/file/5806/download?token=GouEIX9Y
These are the approximate values that would make it comparatively easy to affordably reach Net Zero Energy with a PV array that fits on the house. It was written in 2009, and PV prices have fallen considerably since then, but only marginally improved in efficiency, so it's still the right ball park.
The numbers are "whole-assembly R" with all thermal bridging accounted for, not center-cavity. An R24 SIP is really closer to R20-R22 after factoring in the structural splines, top & bottom plates, window & door framing, etc.,and it's almost always cheaper to get there (or higher) with stick-built + exterior foam. You're really looking for something north of R25 whole-wall if you have Net Zero dreams, and at current PV pricing trends that is probably going to be more cost effective on a lifecycle basis than going with anything less than Net Zero.
Per Table 2 of BA-1005 your starting targets are:
Walls: R30 (eg: 2x6 / R20 + 3" of exterior polyiso, vs. an 8.5-9" EPS-core SIP.)
Attic: R65
or if unvented attic, insulated at the roof: R50
Basement/crawlspace walls: R15 continuous insulation (< this is currently code minimum under IRC 2012 or newer)
If slab on grade, slab edge: R10 (also current code-min)
Windows: U0.24, with SHGC greater than 0.50
Full coverage under slab (either slab on grade, or basement): R7.5
(2" of EPS= R8.2, and is cheaper & greener than 1.5" of XPS = R7.5.)
Drew - there is a lot of good advice here. I REALLY like a book called- A Pattern Language- by Christopher Alexander and others. This set of geniuses went around the world finding rooms, houses, porches, stairs, kitchens, streets - hundreds of details- that most people agreed "felt good" and analyzed them to come up with "patterns" to be followed when designing. These ideas plus energy efficiency ideas found on this site will yield you a house that you and you loved ones will want to spend time in - a home with a soul. Spend an evening looking through this book and decide for yourself if you like it. Maybe your local library has it. I wish you the best of luck on this journey.
Funny you mention that book. I've been reading it for the past couple of nights.
1. Yes, detach the garage. Stock plans are designed for tight urban lots. You appear to have plenty of room, use it. Think of it as a compound, like a traditional farmyard, with positive exterior space being defined by the relationship between the elements.
2. Breezeways are terrific value. They can be carport, workspace, craft space, catering setup for a big party.....
3. Since you're already reading it, perhaps the single most important pattern in The Pattern Language is 'Light from two sides'. The internalised main living space of the plan you show, like so many stock plans, is anathema. Good for watching big screen TV with the drapes pulled and not much else. With a house of this scale there's no reason every important room can't have that two side daylight.
4. Bubble diagram.
5. A good design professional will treat you as a full partner in the design, not just as a client, and their expertise and experience can offer huge benefits in cost control and in the quality of the finished product. Hire the right person and you won't be sorry.
Drew - I agree with James: light from two sides is one of the more important "patterns" for nice rooms.
Dana - I never said thanks for providing me the data a few replies above. This makes my job that much easier and I believe you have convinced me to just build conventional with 2x6 exteriors. In the back of my head, I had myself believing doubles walls is what I needed.
You can see that I'm just starting to scratch the surface in the discovery process of this journey. I probably won't build for a year or two so those panels that I bought 6 years ago for over a buck a watt may be had for a quarter of that in a couple of years.
I'm still pondering floor plans and while the pattern language has interesting material, some suggestions in the book appear to require bump outs and other costly corners. I read the pattern which refers to light in at least 2 sides and this theory resonated with a couple of rooms in my current house. The north rooms are dark.
I'm also jogging around the idea of celestory windows to throw light into the north side.
I found another reference in the book suggesting to add a bright structure on the north side to reflect light into the northern rooms. I presently own a heliostat for that purpose, but I can only shine on one room. I do plan to erect a pole barn. I will most likely make it white and tuck it behind the northern side of the house. All just thoughts for now..
Keep the dialogue coming, it has me thinking.
Oh.. The window performance data you reference.. That's only for the southern exposure, yes?
Also don't forget that you can "borrow" light from one space to another via windows in interior doors, transom Windows, stained glass windows etc.
Drew - we're getting ready to build our house in Michigan and actually came up with a very similar floorplan. In our case, the front of our house faces the South, but we are on a heavily shaded lot. Thought you might be interested in comparing. I know its probably tough to read the small fonts, but our house is 2357 sq ft with a full basement. My wife is in a wheelchair and we had a hard time finding a floorplan with enough of a turning radius built into the plan, so we came up with our own. We used a cheap app for our iPad (Home Design 3D) and probably went through 20 or so iterations until we got something we liked. Our lot slopes down from South to North and from West to East, so we'll have two non-backfilled walls (N and E walls), with the North wall serving as the walkout entrance. The backfilled walls will be the pre-cast Superior XI Walls, and the rest will 2x6 framed like the rest of the house and insulated with dense packed cellulose, sheathed with Zip panels, and covered in 4'' of Roxul Comfortboard IS. We tangled with the idea of doing a partial basement (i.e. a slab under the West half of the house), but concluded the cost difference wasn't worth the design complications. Our windows will be Klearwall's triple glazed Futureproof line and we plan on using Mitsubishi mini-splits to heat/cool our house.
Brian. Thanks for sharing! Would you mind dropping me an email so we can chat offline? My email addy is drew.baden70 at gmail.com I'm unsure if there a method exists to contact users via the board other than the forum postings. I'd like to hear more.
Drew,
Move the partition between the master bedroom and the hallway farther south -- making the hallway narrower and the master bedroom deeper.
Drew,
The dining room is too far from the kitchen.
The stairs are on the wrong side of the house. They need to be near the entry door.
The northeast bedroom has no closet.
The kitchen is awkward -- too many steps separate the east counter from the west counter, but there isn't quite enough room for an island.
There is no hard & fast rule about stairs next the entry door, just common in builder plans. The stairs, since they only go to the basement, should be where they would be most functional. Is the basement more utilitarian? Then by the garage/mud room or kitchen is more practical. Is it a party palace? Then the front door/kitchen/family room. You get the idea.
If the attached garage is still on the table, consider putting it away from bedrooms. There are new studies out about CO possibly seeping through gypsum board. Not to mention the noise of people coming and going and the suction of fumes into the house whenever that door is opened.
If you can, avoid putting the "porto-potty" in public places. I don't mean to be crude, but having a bathroom door right off the family room, dining room or any other living place will get old real fast. Consider ALL the senses when locating bathrooms, kitchens, laundries & garages.
Kudos to trying to do your own thing!
I have to say this is a bit painful to read. I know there is a DIY aspect to this site and I'm sure I will get criticized for saying so, but you really should consider hiring a (good) architect.
I'm as DIY-ish as they come but a man's gotta know his limitations. If hiring an architect is too expensive, an off-the-shelf plan, modified as needed, would probably still be a much better choice. The radically different designs of the two plans shown in this thread suggest a lack of focus and clarity that can be provided by delegating the work to a professional, either hired now, or by purchasing their pre-existing work in the form of an off-the-shelf plan.
I think I am generally with Nate. I'm also extremely DIY, but if you are going to go deep with DIY. it cannot be approached quickly and casually. There is a HUGE amount of homework and time involved, and the money output is not trivial, even if it seems like things are cheap because you aren't paying anyone to do it.
Having said that, there can also be limitations with architects, and professionals in general. In the case of ultimate, currently achievable energy efficiency, for example, it may be tough to find an architect or other professional that can effectively integrate all the necessary intricacies and details that Mother Nature demands.
Man, a tough bunch here but I love it!! :)
I failed to mention that the "sketch" was me putting about 2 hours into obtaining a piece of software, trying to learn the software and whipping together some rooms yesterday evening. I just wanted boxes to represent the different areas to begin with. I have a year, or more to come up with something that fits. If I simply pay someone, I personally wouldn't reap the reward of doing it myself. but I get what most of you are telling me. It would be ideal to find a plan that fits what I'm after, but I haven't quite seen one yet. Having said that, when/if I do come up with a logical design I will integrate the designer I mentioned above.
I appreciate the feedback. I'll keep searching, manipulating, creating. I'm wiping the slate clean and trying again.
I totally get the desire to learn something in the process, while saying money, too. I operate under this mindset all the time. However, it puts a substantial burden on you: you need to become as good as the professional, but on your own dime and time! If that's something that's stimulating and attractive to you, then go hog wild. Buy books on architecture. Read architecture blogs, from multiple perspectives. Soak up all the information you can. But just remember that many things cannot really be learned from a book, and must be done to give you a feel for how to do it. This means that your first time around, you may make dumb mistakes that you realize you could not really have avoided until you had that "aha" moment that only comes from actually doing it.
If this seems overwhelming, then it's probably worth it it bring in a pro who already has this knowledge and experience. The trick, of course, is finding that person and avoiding all the guys who are ignorant, intellectually incurious, set in their ways, or whose vision you don't share.
So the question is which problems are you more interested in solving?
1. The problem of learning and gaining sufficient experience with architecture, general contracting, etc. to design/organize the build to your specifications and be happy with the result
2. The problem of finding professional architects, general contractors, etc. who can help you figure out what you want and execute on it, and the problem of earning the money necessary to pay them for these services
If you are having fun, then I disagree with the above advise about hiring an architect at this point in the process. I designed the house that we are now in the process of building. Your floorplan and rendering look like they come from the same software I used. I enjoyed the process and I believe that the end product will work better for us than what we would have gotten from a professional. I worked on it for over a year, throwing away many intermediate concepts that didn't work out. There is no resemblance between my first designs and what I ended up with. Looking at plans by professionals is a good source of ideas. Six months from now, if you are still not satisfied with what you have produced, take your best tries to a pro and tell them what you like and don't like about them.
Drew,
If you have an attic (and even if you don't), it's easy for a plumbing vent serving a drain on the south side of the building to penetrate the north slope of the roof. That's what 45 degree elbows are for.
Amen, Reid! I AM having a blast!
I will integrate an architect at some point--but if we all have architects--I'm unsure why we have a forum titled, "Plans review". I spoke to an architect who is now aged in his upper 70's for whom I consulted computer services with back in the 90's and he is still in practice. We talked for an hour and a half and didn't discuss a thing about architecture! He's been in the business for over 50 years. i'll end up spilling some rum with him. I'm not ready for that yet.
I am remaining unbiased because I genuinely value everyone's feedback. The fact that some are suggesting that I solely rely on architects is showing to me that they are ultimately trying to save me money. I get that.
I'll continue to progress through multiple iterations and I will witness feedback from those who provide positive feedback and encourage me to reach my goal as well as the opposite side of the spectrum. It happens in all forums of topic. I will learn from all facets--positive and negative influence. For instance, if I post an entirely different design, it may bring thoughts that I am conflicted, but telling me that doesn't add any value however IF I am able to pull out a bit of positive information in that person's same reply then I've learned something.
I will continue to compile data. My quick layout was intended to gather feedback as the title suggests, NOT my intention to move forward with it!
Anderson (A pattern language) is adamant about placing the kitchen on the southern exposure yet that would probably create a plumbing vent on that side, so I'm trying to be careful not to do that. I'll continue to experiment and I do have plenty of questions and research. Hmmm... Maybe I could simply use an air admittance valve in the kitchen? I don't need to pay an arhitect $10k to tell me that. I'll get there.
I'd love to see the plans you came up with if you care to post.
Thanks to those for taking the time to inspire me and otherwise. I'm learning.
Hello everyone. I've been revising the footprint to align with all of your suggestions.
This is the rendition I ended up with. This is very very rough, but I want to bounce the plan off the group to gather feedback as I move forward. After I dial this plan in, I've found a local (Ohio) designer who I will invest time with to help me produce buildable prints. I'm still at least a year out from breaking ground, so I'm in no rush.
Some notes:
° I converted the eastern end of the roof from a hip to a gable end to allow more mounting space for solar panels.
° I appreciate the aesthetics of the hip where it integrates with the garage roof, but I may opt for a breeze way between the structures. I am starting to really like the idea of a breezeway.
° You see here that I've located all the wet areas with the exception of the laundry to the north as to keep all roof penetrations on the northern slope.
° I want a large master bath and a large walk in closet. The closet hanging down would give me a pseudo-mudroom entry from the garage and a bookshelf area on the eastern side of the closet below the kitchen. But, something just doesn't seem right here.
° I don't have the stencils for the kitchen appliances, bathrooms fixtures or things like tables, chairs and stuff. But that will come. I would like to have some sort of "return" on the kitchen which would integrate some sort of stool/sitting counter.
° This is a ranch. The stairs go to the basement. I'm not sure if there is a magic dimension that I should aim for, or to keep all measurements within some sort of increment of X.
Please continue to critique/offer suggestions. I'm really learning here!
Drew, A plumbing vent can always do what Martin says, in the attic it can change course, as long as it does not reverse pitch or diminish in size. So then it is easy to bring it to the "hidden" side of the building, but always remember you want it to protrude closer to the peak of the roof there, not low on the roof. And when it all gets up there it can tie into one penetration. Forget the cheater valve.
Drew,
My wife warns our family and friends not to ask me about the house design because I have a tendency to tell them way more than they were really interested in knowing. I am keeping a blog to document the construction progress. The first post at http://lindenairporthouse.blogspot.com/2015/10/introduction.html has some renderings of the design. The second post at http://lindenairporthouse.blogspot.com/2015/11/floorplans.html shows the floor plans. The house is now enclosed. The subsequent posts document the process.
Sounds like you are having the time of your life, Reid. Me too. I think Drew is already as well!
Chris,
Maybe I'm just feeling grumpy this morning -- or maybe it's just me -- but I think that web site has some seriously ugly houses.
.
Drew,
Browser these EnergyStar plans for some good ideas.
http://www.dfdhouseplans.com/plans/energystar_house_plans/
For example plan no. 6245 contains a detached garage which you can mount a large PV array and has a fairly basic design that doesn't look so slab sided. Always think about re-sale and not every energy efficient house must be a ranch with a gable roof.
@Martin.
Indeed but hey someone about 10 minutes from my office spent over $1MM to build a ~1/3rd scale replica of the White House. Who am I to judge? lol.
Chris,
Do you live in the Atlanta area?
.
Ha! Yes, that's it..
The Whitehouse? ICK! I try to steer clear of politics as much as possible. When I see that place, I think bureaucratic red tape, poor decision making, wasted money on toilet seats, etc.
Reid - I'm about 1.5 hours south of you. Can you land in 3 acres? Come down and pick me up to see your place. ha!
Chris - I like plan 9619, particularly for the porches / decks that I could face east/west to watch the sunrise/set but it wouldn't allow much of a southern view unless I lost bunches of wall space but the high windows would allow light to enter. You have me thinking....
Martin-I looked at the "most popular" designs. Wow! Who knew there are so many ways to make a house look awful, yet hard to build? What's with all the dormers? And corners?
Guys - here's another go I had over lunch today.
I took input I received from some of you and moved the following:
The bathroom to the north is tucked behind a wall.
The kitchen to the south. Increased size to include an island.
The master bed is now away from the garage.
The guest bed now contains a closet.
Stairs relocated to the entry area from the garage.
I found the symbols today so I added some pieces which is helpful for me to understand size relationships.
Have at it guys and give me some more feedback!
Do you have a significant other? I found that my wife was the best person to have comment on all of my intermediate designs. I suspect the group here will tire of it pretty soon if you go through nearly as many concepts as I did. Here are a few quick reactions:
- The master closet and the office seem too narrow
- I think it is odd to not have a front door somewhere (even if you rarely use it)
- Aesthetically, I prefer to either have gables on both ends or hip on both ends. Of course, aesthetics tend to be very personal.
Hi Reid.
I do have a significant other. She fancies jacuzzi tubs, accouterments and such and doesn't care much about function or flow.
I changed both ends to gables and will give the office and closet some thought. What I didn't hear from you is any large changes so that much is good.
Still doodling....
Mast bathrooms usually have double vanity (i.e sinks). Break them apart if you can for your own sanity.
Where's the pantry? The distance from sink to stove seems long.
1. Steal a little room from the 2nd bedroom to create an entry closet.
2. If the master closet is that narrow, you will only be able to get a single row of hanging or shelving in it. You might as well just do a regular closet with sliding or bi-fold doors...that would give you an additional almost 2 feet (which you could add to the 2nd bath to be able to have room for the door to swing behind the vanity, which would allow you to move or stretch the vanity to the doorway). Also would give you room for a tub. You could also use 1/2 of the extra space in your office or add to the master bedroom.
3. Add a closet on the right end of the stairway with an elevated floor.
4. Master bath layout seems a little awkward...
Good Luck!
Nice improvements and now is the point at which a kitchen designer can give you some hints as to redesign g your kitchen. Anyone who wants to sell you cabs will do it for free. You might consider reconfiguring your master bath, and instead of that long deep shower, turn that into a water closet, put the shower where the tub is and place the tub next to that east facing window, bearing in mind you need to have tempered glass there... and as mentioned above the closet is too small to get clothes on both sides. You can have the clothes on the west wall and hang things on the east wall, however. Kitchen- I would reduce cabinets and use the storage room as a pantry. It will save you tons of dough. Seeing as you have that southern exposure I would be shooting for more properly configured glazing of the south including your kitchen in order to bring in the natural light and getting rid of the wall cabs on the south wall in doing so. Make sure you calculate the proper overhangs to reduce overheating during the shoulder seasons. Get your range closer to an outside wall (maybe that east wall) to facilitate a hood vent going straight out. I don't see a laundry, so it makes me wonder if you are part of the 1/2 of 1/2% of new home builders that still thinks a basement laundry is a worthwhile idea? (Wink)... in the master suite, ditch the high window over the bed and place two windows, one on each side of the bed. Ideally casements or better yet awning Windows that might not have to be closed in the middle of the night of a storm comes through. You certainly should have a coat closet somewhere. Maybe on the west wall of the storage room? This is all my humble opinion. Best wishes.
Ok, looking further, I see an opportunity to install a sealed gas fireplace in the living room on the west wall. Get rid of the wall that the TV is on and open it up, using a couch or sectional and perhaps a transom to define the space. You can use differing ceiling heights if need be. Your TV can go yo the south or north of the fireplace seeing as it isn't a big part of your life. In getting rid of the wall and exposing your stairs there, it allows you to do something nice like a half wall, or posts and Newell to the downstairs landing. I see you are calling for a patio door to the dining set. Maybe you can put your front entry door in between the dining and living room and define it better. Every home needs a front entry and a fireplace. Now last thing- I am not a fan of Windows in showers so in the bath, consider offsetting your tub and shower there into either the office space or the bdrm closet space and then you can narrow the width from east to west of your bathroom thereby giving back some footage to either of these two spaces. Where a home draftsman or architect can help you is in getting all of the proper dimensions both for the spaces and for the Windows and doors so that you meet all criteria for egress, light and ventilation. You can calculate your overhangs yourself with the prospect tables, but to get the best passive solar gain during the correct times, you need to be careful with your southern, western and eastern facing glazing. Signing off, I am now tired. LOL
Drew,
Your garage needs a "person door."
Ideally, your kitchen would be closer to the entry door used by the family, so that groceries can be brought easily from the car to kitchen.
You need more of a mudroom/transition room at your entry -- to drop mail, to temporarily place bags somewhere, and to greet guests.
More excellent feedback guys!
Master bath - I agree this is awkward. I haven't quite figured out my plan yet but the shower placeholder is intended for a walk in style shower as I would prefer to avoid a shower door. I'll start focusing a little more on these details now that I believe I'm finding an overall plan.
The wall the TV is on is a halfwall to maintain an open floor plan. I like the idea of getting rid of it alltogether. I am going to swap the kitchen and the living area so I will have another plan soon.
Kitchen - I thought about the trip from the garage to the kitchen. I'll work on swapping the kitchen with the living area. This will give me an opportunity to combine a counter as a catch all while bringing in groceries again keeping an open floorplan.
Pantry - The area labeled "storage" was intended to be a pantry and broom closet. Since I'm moving the kitchen, I'll need to come up with something closer. Ideally I will create a mudroom entry that will contain these things.
Garage - Adding a service door with a mouse click. :)
Closets - I would very much prefer a walk in closet. I need to figure this out but haven't even searched for standard closet dimensions yet (or hardly any other dimensions for that matter). Working on entry closet, too. Excellent idea! Also love the idea of a raised floor closet over the end of the stairs. I believe you're suggesting that the closet is open to the east? I remember having something like that but different growing up as a kid where the closet was reachable from the stairs. It made things a bit dangerous but a great place to toss hats and stuff to keep them out of the way.
I thought about the washer and dryer. I originally had the office area set up as a utility area. I have an idea to deviate back to that setup, steal some of the office room and either relocating the master bathroom or just expanding the closet. Will be looking for advice here as I progress for sure. I can just stuff an office in the basement and make due.
Windows - This is a big deal. I haven't given much thought to the windows yet. I just plopped some in to give me an idea. Not that they are a complete afterthought. I was thinking about creating an entire thread just to the window discussion. I found an overhang calculator that I've been playing with. I'll also need help understanding which proper U values I need for each side of the house. Dana, you stated "Windows: U0.24, with SHGC greater than 0.50" but I don't think I'd use those all the way around, correct? I believe I'd want very low U on the northern wall but that's another discussion.
I'm not opposed to expanding the footprint in attempt to capture more room for some of the suggestions offered. I am currently just under 45' x 41'. This was based on no calculations or thought to lumber or material sizes. It was just me pulling lines around trying to come up with a design that squarish yet logical to me. Maybe I should make the dimensions 48' x 40' to find a factor of 8' lengths for OSB sheets,etc., and eliminate waste. This is certainly where I'd expect to find value integrating a designer or architect.
Guys - I am LOVING your tips, ideas and suggestions. THANK YOU SO MUCH! I am having a blast and I'm not spending a dime doing it!!
Thank you kindly!
Drew,
The progress you made between the last two plans you posted is staggering. I agree with the advice you have been given that a few more rounds of changes to address practical concerns, and have the plans respond to the conditions on your site, are a good idea.
Once you feel you have are satisfied with these, I'd suggest two other things you might want to think about that might add to your design.
- Look at the plans with an eye to adding delight to the spaces. What is it that will make you look forward to using them? Don't leave any space as just background to move through. Make them places that will delight you.
- Try and identify an idea behind the house. Is this the cottage-like house in the field? Is it long house that tries the embrace the sun? What do you consider the good life, and how will this house express those ideas or values.
Good luck!
Malcom, I am trying to get to the place that you describe. But I believe that place would include such things as nooks and bumpouts which I'm attempting to avoid. As others have hinted, I will most likely be happy with outdoor rooms, so I started with a couple decks and I also started working on an entry way. I may very well convert this into a small bump out to enter the dwelling as Alexander makes this entrance an extreme importance in his book.
NW bed - carved out some space for an entry closet and a utility sink near the garage. I also included a transom window on the south bed wall to keep in line with the rule of light.
Master bath - relocated to the north side of the house. The windows in each bath are both 36x17 and are located high on the wall. Below here, I added the washer and dryer. This grouping of both baths and the washer keeps almost all of the wet on the north.
Master bed - Again, I have 2 smaller windows raised a bit higher on the east wall and I've included a door on the north. I'd love to somehow get the door into the master bath, but I'm not sure how to do this, so I might waver back to a traditional shower instead of the doorless walk in shower I was hoping for. That's not a huge deal breaker, just something I really hoped for. If I do that, I could remove the window in the bath and allow light through a pane in the door and maybe save a few hundred.
Master closet - Still not sure how to design / manage space. Is it too big? Inefficient dimensions?
Kitchen - swapped to the west wall and put in a nice big sink with a large window above to see the sun set. This is my only view to the west from the entire house, so I made it large. Also added an island but lack a pantry, so I created that over by the stairs. It's not ideal due to distance from the kitchen but I couldn't figure anything else out at the moment. I reduced the cabinetry and size as suggested. Oh, I also created a pass-through under the wall hanging cabinets and placed a table on the other side near the garage entry. Allowing light to penetrate and also serve function. I like this.
Dining - close to the kitchen as suggested.
Living - added corner fireplace. I see the television will be washed out most of the day and afternoon from the sun hitting it, but I rarely turn it on. If I do, it's after the sun has been down for a while.
Main entrance - I'm struggling here the most. I'm open to any and all suggestions here. Am I on the right path? It seems that the closet is a big ugly box in the room.
As you can see, I'm really trying hard to interpret everyone's input and apply what I've been advised. I wish I could take everyone out for a beer! You have ALL been extremely helpful! Please keep up the comments, criticism, general discussion, etc. I can't begin to tell you how much I value your input.
That's looking pretty darn nice at this point! I love the deck that's accessible through the master bedroom. That will be a really lovely space. However, part of it is on the west side, so for several hours a day, it may get blasted with sun. plan for a tree or trellis or some other shading device there and it will be a much more pleasant space.
There's a large awkward space in your latest design between the kitchen, living room, and staircase. This area is transitional--you walk through it to get somewhere else--but it seems far too large and may feel awkward unless it has an anchoring element in it. In an ancient house, this is where you would put a fountain or a shrine to the household gods or something.
I also don't like that almost-freestanding entry coat closet, but I can't put my finger on why. It seems so… disconnected.
Drew. Tell us a bit more about yourself. Will the house be just for the two of you? Do you have guests often? Where is the best view? Do you both cook? Do you cook together? Do you need a home office? Will a Jacuzzi tub ever get used? Would a two person shower get used more? What goes in the garage? Four cars or a workshop or ?
I echo the comments suggesting a breezeway between the house and garage. You can make it the entry/ mudroom.
The closet off the deck won't work. You really do need an entry where boots and coats can be removed and people can transition into the house. A s you note, the pantry doesn't belong so far from the kitchen.
When tweaking the design of our new house, we mocked up some spaces using sheets of cardboard and sawhorses. That helped a lot in laying out the kitchen. It's amazing how sometimes adding a few inches can make a space better.
You mention nooks and such. You might consider built-ins like window seats, or lower ceilings in places. If you aren't familiar with Sarah Susanka's books (The Not so big house, et al.) I recommend them highly.
As you are finding out, we all love designing houses, especially other people's.
Drew,
You don't need bump outs or nooks, mostly it is intention. Try not to think of this as an exercise in simply subdividing the space into smaller ones. Architecture as all about relationships. Create beautiful, functional places that relate to one another.
I agree with the others that outdoor rooms will help mediate the relationship between the house and its surroundings. Remember when you are designing them that what makes undifferentiated space into "places" or "rooms" is enclosure. That's why a breezeway feels better than a deck sticking out into a lawn.
Another technique to add delight to houses is light. Architecture can be seen as light playing on form. What are the qualities of light where you are? How it is introduced to a house should differ greatly between the gloomy PNW and the hard light of the South-West.
Thee are a great many things that when you look at your design thinking about them will lead to changes that deepen it. You might not cover them all, but each time you approach the plans with one of them in mind it will be enriched.
Drew,
fyi...When you have a range in the open like it is you're going to have to upsize the exhaust fan and possibly buy an extra wide range hood so that it'll overcome the additional air movement around the cook area.
The house will be primarily used by the two of us. Some times I'll have other family or friends over. However in the past, the holidays have gotten busy where we've had 20-25 over but that gets overwhelming and we don't do it often.
I'll check out Sarah Susanka's material. Thank you for the lead on that.
We don't cook together on a regular basis, but we often find one another in the kitchen together at times. For example, one person might be trying to get coffee ready for the morning while another is dancing around cooking. Some times, one will prep food while another begins to cook side dishes or whatnot.
The tub is primarily for the lady. She enjoys soaking in the tub and does it almost nightly. She prefers it large enough so I can hop in too although I told her I won't be in it a whole bunch. (I'm 6'3" about 240 and she's a little thing) I like showers and they consume much less water. I'm afraid a two person shower wouldn't get used but I'm not yet sure what the dimensions should be sized for a single person walk in shower. I may rip out the walk in and insert a corner unit and move the exterior door to the bathroom. I'm curious what you're thinking here.
As for the garage - We have 2 cars and a truck. It would be nice to make room for a future camper but I can't afford to keep growing walls. I would like enough room for a shop in the garage. Finally! A bulb went on and I had an epiphany on the breezeway! Thanks for the continued reminders that I should have had this in mind all along. Maybe I'll seperate the garage, rotate it 45 or 90 and move it up a bit and then connect a breezeway from it to the house. Are there any objections to using a pole barn for the garage? Is that cheap and ugly? Would it work aesthetically? It seems that I could save a little $ by just putting up a pole barn with a gravel base and concrete it in a few years when I'm back on my feet. Bad idea?
Chris - I'm glad you brought up the stovetop requirements! I feel somewhat stuck here. If I swap the cooktop with the sink, I lose the kitchen window, yes? I also read some articles/forums regarding cooktop exhaust and many insist that a recirculating fan/filter should be used in a superinsulated structure instead of direct exhaust. I'm wondering what the mojority are using? I'm thinking about extending the wall out from the refridgerator and moving the magic triangle yet again.
I've only been on here a couple of weeks and I feel like I am starting to know some of you guys! :) This pic is Mary and I from a highrise in SanFransico last year. Hello from us to all of you!!
Drew- I asked whether it is just the two of you because maybe the second bedroom can function as an office, TV room and only occasionally as an extra bedroom. Maybe a sleep sofa will suffice if you only need the extra bed once in a while.
Would she enjoy soaking in a hot tub as opposed to a big bath tub? We have had a hot tub in an unheated room for almost 20 years, in two different houses. We use it almost every night. Because we have the hot tub, we were able to skip the bathtub and use the room for a big shower. In any event, do you need two full baths with tubs? Maybe you could get by with a single tub in the main bath and just a small shower in the guest bath. I'd think a lot about where the guest bath goes. If the extra bedroom won't be used as a bedroom very often, placement of the guest bath should perhaps be determined without worrying too much about access from the bedroom.
Something to consider is tiling the entire master bathroom floor. That way you may be able to skip the shower surround. We also used wall-hung toilets and vanities, which makes mopping the floor pretty simple.
When designing our new house's garage, I wanted space for three vehicles and all the tools I needed a place for. We measured the cars and truck, considered how likely we are to ever get bigger ones (not likely) and ended up with a 24 x 34 garage. The car that only gets driven in the summer can fit in front of my wife's car so we only needed two garage doors.
On the breezeway issue, you can make it the primary entrance, have it function as a screen porch in nice weather and, by separating the garage from the house, have more window options.
I had the same thought as Chris-a cooktop in the island means a bigger fan and hood and also gets in the way if you like to have folks gather around the island while one of you cooks. Whether you should get a recirculating hood depends to some extent to what sort of cooking you do. If you fry a lot, or sizzle steak and make a lot of smoke, I'd opt for a hood that vents to the outside. We cook a lot, but don't do much that makes a lot of smoke or grease, so we don't miss having a vent to the outside. If we are cooking anything that might smell, we just boost the HRV and it works for us.
What a fiasco this thread is.
Thanks for the laughs. If nothing else, it is funny to watch house design by committee.
It reminds me of meetings at Microsoft to develop Windows 8.
Everybody's input is valued and implemented, and we wind up with an operating system that is not intuitive and useful to anybody.
Sonny,
As an architect it's not exactly the process I'd advise or am used to, but it does share some of the attributes of the studio system, where you hang your drawings on the wall and have to defend them from any criticism that comes their way from mentors, fellow students and anyone else that happens by.
I think it's a interesting experiment to see how far Drew can come, in the limited time he has, acquiring the skills it generally takes years to become proficient in. Since he isn't going to take the early poster's advice to hire a designer, what other options would you suggest?
So Malcolm, I said I like the design committee. I wouldn't suggest another option.
I like the deep architect insight like a " breezeway feels better than a deck sticking out into a lawn." But actually it only feels better to cousin Eddie when he throws a party in the breezeway, and he can be cool and sit on his riding mower with the cup holder for his beer, with friends gathered around on folding chairs. Everyone else just feels better having a party on their deck sticking out into the lawn.
I'd like to have a serious discussion about the basis for architectural design and decisions. I think it is what is often omitted from the discussion here that perhaps quite understandably emphasizes the techniques of energy efficiency. I'd like to talk about where "deep architect insights" might come from, but if you would rather maintain a detached cynicism about the whole subject that's alright too. It's your call.
I'm finding no value in your posts, Sonny. I started this thread to learn and find assistance. If you have no value to add, I would appreciate if you refrain.
Hey Chris - I appreciate your continued feedback. I don't cook in grease much. Anything that creates smoke or splatter I always cook outside on the grill - like hamburgers or steaks et cetera.
I thought about the bath when I took the little lady to dinner last night. Funny you mention a hot tub, I just mentioned that to her last night and told her I'd rather have a hot tub and a smaller bath tub in the bathroom--I must have read your mind. She reminded me that I complained years ago about having a hot tub and the maintenance, and the electricity, and the leaks, and the.... you get the idea. Things might have changed since I owned a hot tub over 20 years ago however. I might need to push this one through. I wouldn't mind trying a hot tub on the north east patio.
Malcom - I can't thank you enough for your input. I am viewing this as a whiteboard of sorts and it's great to have resources like you out here. For this, I am grateful.
Drew. The hot tub requires very little attention. Change the water every three or four months. It uses about $20-25 per month in electricity at our 15¢ or so per kwh. Never had a leak. Having it indoors, even in uncondtioned space, makes it much more usable. Sitting outside in the snow sounds romantic, but who wants to shovel?
Hence the deck, just outside the master bath! ;) Where's the "like" button for your post, darn it?
The down side to a hot tub is the enhanced legionella risk, since it dwells 24/7 at prime legionella growth temperatures. Maintenance and chemical treatment mitigates this risk, but it can't be ignored. Hotel hot tubs are one of the most common identified sources of diagnosed legionella case clusters.
You mentioned that you have some thoughts of getting an RV in the future and it would be nice to be able to put it inside. Although I eventually found a way to accomplish that in my design, it was one of the biggest design challenges. The RV dictated the height of the hangar and hangar door. Having an indoor place for our motorhome, which is probably worth $10K, likely added $20K to the cost. We do expect that it will make loading and unloading substantially easier and prolong the lifespan of the vehicle some. In our case, if we were not able to keep it inside, we would have had to store it somewhere miles away. If the alternative was to just have it beside the garage, the difference in convenience would not have been very significant.
You also mentioned that maybe the garage could be a pole barn. My builder talked me out of using mixed construction. His logic was that there was no need for an engineering sign-off if he used standard residential construction for everything. We ended up consulting an engineer anyway because we were concerned about the rigidity of the wall with the hangar door. The engineer specified some structural beef-ups which added substantial cost. I now wish I had pushed the idea of mixed construction a little harder. Some of the issue was that an attached garage has a more stringent building code, at least in my area, than an unattached garage. Building code issues tend to be local, so I don't know whether you will have the same constraints. Also, O am not sure whether a garage attached to the house by a breezeway is considered an attached garage for building code purposes.
Here's my latest changes. Today I managed to toss an hour at the plan and reduce the footprint down to 1650 sq. ft.
Master bed - I swapped the bedroom and closet which reduced the Northern window count. I added a sliding glass door on the bedroom but I'm unsure about this. While it will allow plenty of light it does add expense over a traditional entry door. By swapping the closet, this allowed me to bump out the bedroom into the hall and use that space.
After going back an forth on our virtual whiteboard here, I am further convinced to reduce my (her) bath size and install a conventional shower. I'm contemplating the water closet here. Would moving the water closet against the wall of the guest bath making a mirror of that toilet make sense? Would I have enough room in between it and the sink? If I did this, I'd reclaim a bit of room to the laundry and master bed. Thoughts?
I've considered the bugs a hot tub can harvest, however I feel proper bromine/chlorine and UV should protect against this issue.
I created a breezeway between the garage and the house, but then removed it to save on siding. My main car is a Prius so emissions are minimal. As for other emissions entering the house from the garage - I don't have a concern.
It's almost time for me to pull the ace out of my back pocket - the architect I consulted for many years ago. I just need a few more tweaks first.
I'm beginning to think about southern window square footage, and I'm shooting for around 100 square feet of glazing. I'll take any advice offered here as well.
This is beginning to feel less of a sandbox and more of a reality. Thanks again to those who have offered serious input.
You want your bedroom to feel like a safe, secure refuge so that you and your wife are comfortable having sex there. A sliding glass door will make the interior of the room feel very exposed to the outside and destroy that feeling, unless it leads out to a private walled garden or something. A porch--even a raised porch with a handrail--is probably still going to feel too much like exposed outside space to let it into your bedroom through a sliding glass door, especially considering how the porch is itself a public space accessible from the living room. People could idly wander out into that porch during a party or family gathering and peek in on your master bedroom if you've forgotten to close the shades on the door. The master bedroom is the most private core of the house and you're not going to want it that close to so many public spaces.
I would move the master closet to the south end of the bedroom (this also puts an acoustic buffer between the bedroom and the living room), move the east porch to the south, change the sliding glass doors to a standard-size door with obscured glass, move it door to the north side, and have it open into a completely private porch or garden with tall fences, walls, or trellises.
So Nate you wouldn't recommend our bedroom? Lol. It also shares part of our living room wall. We have three kids and no problems. We love the light, view, and have curtains when needed. It opens up to a small deck off the main patio out back. Wouldn't change a thing.
Drew I'm assuming your fairly young? And if so a few things come to mind. 1. Resale. This will most likely not be your only home and you should think about resale value. Not sure about your area but in my area most families are looking for at least 2,000 sq/ft minimum. 1,600 sq/ft home would limit the market of buyers in our area. 2. Laundry. You've got the plan down to 1,600 sq/ft but you've put the washer and dryer in a closet. Better talk to the misses about that. She may say it's ok on paper but a laundry room with room for laundry bins, cleaning supplies, and place to fold/hang clothes is not a convenience in our home, its a necessity. If you have kids either you or most likely your wife will spend a great deal of time there. Make it nice and livable. 3. I would place the laundry room close to the garage and most likely as the first room you enter. No one wants to track dirt into the middle of the home. 4. Closets. You may not think you need them but you can never have too many. I only see one on the main floor and its small. 5. No pantry - again think of your better half and how she will use the kitchen. 5. Don't be too scared of corners. If you need them to make the house functional then put them in. It can still be efficient.
I did my own home design. Floor plans, elevations, all finish work and details. It took me about 3 months before I finally had a plan that I was happy with. By the time I was done I could walk through every room in the house and visualize every detail. You really need to think about how you will live on a daily basis & plan for the future (kids & possible re-sale).
Jeremy,
Nice room! The ceiling and bulkheads really work well. It's a great example of how you can incorporate dropped portions of rooms to accommodate services and create architectural interest at the same time.
You wrote: "By the time I was done I could walk through every room in the house and visualize every detail."
That's really is the key. I find if I have spent enough time visualizing the design it's almost anti-climactic to visit the finished house. I've already been there in my mind.
Drew,
I would adjust the kitchen cabinet locations. When you walk into your entry with your arms full of groceries, you want to be able to walk directly into the kitchen so that you can set down the groceries on a countertop near the refrigerator. On your current plan, you have to walk all the way to the dining room, before you do a U-turn to reach the kitchen.
Here is an unconventional idea regarding a pantry. You could replace the corner cabinets, which are always hard to use, with a pantry. Then, you could have a second door into the pantry from the entryway area for when you carry groceries in. Having two doors would reduce the wall space available for shelves, so it would take some experimentation to try to come up with a workable arrangement. (Usually unconventional ideas are uncommon for a reason, which often becomes apparent as you attempt to draw them.)
There is not enough space between the island and the wall. I would either make the island a little smaller or extend it to the wall and turn it into a peninsula.
What is that in the wall at the head of your bed?
I would put your closet back where it was in the previous version in order to get another bedroom window. I expect that would improve the exterior appearance from the North. That narrow section of closet you have now would not be very useful. If you stick with this closet location, you may as well extend the shower back into that space. Functionally, it is nice to have the closet door and bathroom door close together. I have seen plans where you go through the closet to get to the bathroom or vice versa. The house we moved from had 5'6" wide closets with clothes on both sides. That was a little too narrow, but 6' should allow enough room.
In the second bedroom, I would move the closet to the south wall in order to make the room more square.
I would draw a plan for a finished basement even if you are not going to finish it right away. Then you can get egress windows and plumbing in the right places for a couple bedrooms and a bathroom down there.
Thanks for letting us in on the fun of this process.
Drew, don't let the deer and bears see you having sex! It might corrupt them! I say put the patio door in if you want it. You can get a full glass French style door instead for less money, with a sidelight if you want it too. And it will be tighter. But those sliders are pretty nice. I even used a twelve footer myself.
Drew,
This is the breezeway of a house I built last summer part way through construction:
Another shot:
Drew- it's been enjoyable watching your plan evolve. One thing I'm curious about is what you have in mind for rooflines in relation to the entry bump out you have added. Assuming you get a fair deal of snow, I think it is nice to plan an entry that does not get snow piled in front of it when the roof unloads.
Hi guys. I've been super busy with work and was travelling all week last week so I didn't have any time to work on my plans.
Master bed - I did like my design rendition where I had a door on the north side with a deck. Since this will suffice for an egress, I will place a long and narrow fixed window up high in the master bed along the east wall. I'm not too worried about peeping Toms. This change required moving the WIC back to the south side of the room like my other design. I stole a little room from the closet to create a bookshelf in the living room - not sure if this area of the closet is large enough to be useful inside.
Master bath - I like the idea of a smaller tub here. Done.
Second bed - I really didn't touch this yet due to lack of time.
Living room - added fireplace which would be propane. Is this acceptable in a tight house? I'm thinking moisture issues.
Washer and dryer - we have something similar in our current house and it seems to work fine. We have front loaders and overhead shelving and find no problems with this configuration.
Kitchen - this is a huge change adjustment per Martin's advice. In my original post a large kitchen was one of my big wishes so I created what I consider a large kitchen. I am thinking of placing a pantry north of the refrigerator however the layout of the cabinetry is just a quick rendition and will most likely change.
I now have direct access to the kitchen from the entry door which brings me to that area.
Entry area - I didn't add a roof entry over the deck yet just because I don't know how to do it in the software due to lack of time to learn. I also created a mudroom area with a table. I could create an area directly into the room for a mudroom sink and move the sink from it's current location which will make the bed more square as suggested. Although I am conflicted about creating a larger footprint, I do like the idea of a small area on the southwest side that will double as an office and a quiet area to relax and watch the sun set in the colder months.
Jeremy - I'd LOVE to see your (or anyone else's) plans if you're willing to share either here or you can find my email in post #24.
Garage - I haven't added a breezeway yet. I did shrink the footprint. In fact, I'd love to stand up a pole barn style garage that I can use to store materials as I acquire them and then eventually connect via breezeway although my current plans show otherwise. Is this possible? I don't see why not other than a huge building being in the way for construction but this building could keep my materials dry as well.
Windows - I haven't really spent much time on these. Bathroom and master bed will be narrow and up high. I am thinking about putting one of these in the master closet as well for natural light. I have read that 6-7% is the idea for southern facing walls but I haven't calculated anything yet. I'll accept any feedback here. I'm starting to worry about the living room being too bright, but chances are that I wouldn't use this room until the later hours anyway.
I'm looking forward to hearing thoughts.
EDIT: Made a change to the eastern kitchen wall to open the space up.
Drew,
I see where you are going, but right now your roofs don't work. The distance from the peak to the exterior walls needs to remain constant or the walls will end up being higher as the rafters (or trusses) get shorter.
For those of you interesting in my thread.....
If I haven't said it before, I closed on my property a week ago and it's now officially mine.
I spent sundown on my property yesterday evening. I noticed something that I noticed the last time I was there--the wind coming from the EAST. I thought this was very strange, so I asked the neighbor to the south his thoughts about this phenomenon. He told me this is usually the case and shrugged his shoulders. Why??I find this weird, and I don't know why it's happening. But wind coming in on a cool evening made things very chilly. It was about 43°. My neighbor then told me to follow him to the west side of his house. When we were there, he told me that is where his family hangs out if they are outside until summer when the wind is welcomed.
I really need to focus on some outdoor living space on the west side which further pushes me to a breezeway or some sort of area between the garage and the house. I could also put up some evergreens as a wind block but I don't want to jump too soon. Heck, I'm still unsure where the house will sit although I have a good idea.
I'll integrate an architect soon. I reached out to the older architect I know who I referenced in an earlier post, but I feel like he doesn't want to be bothered so I probably won't impede his routine.
I then reached out to Steven Baczek out of MA. I contacted Steve a few years back when I was intrigued with the energy efficient home design concept. I lost his name and contact information but somehow stumbled across it in my voicemail system!
I also stumbled across a contact about 5 miles from my property who has mounds of sand he wants removed from his property. He owns a front end loader and has a semi to move it! He told me he has about 35-30 truck loads he will sell. This is nice because I don't want my basement to sit too far in the ground where I am worried about the high water table and clay composition. I will be sure to add bunched of clay dug from the basement to provide a good slope away from the house under the sand.
Drew, just remember that sand and clay don't mix well so you need to really properly prepare the slope and lay the sand thick enough so that the clay doesn't pump up through and make concrete-like gook. Always amend clay with organic matter... Wood chips, peat, sawdust, Sandy loam (not loamy sand) etc.
Drew congrats on closing on the property. Just catching up on this thread. I see in post 88 you asked to see the floor plans I created for our home. Ours is a two story and about 3700 sq/ft total without the finished basement so probably not comparable but would still be willing to post if interested? Congrats again. Exciting times.
Thanks buddy!! Would still love to see it if you care to either post here or send to my email.
Here's what I ended up. A couple things may look off as I photoshoped in a couple of additional changes from our final drawings. We moved in May of 2014 and so far I can't think of anything I would change. The original design called for an attached breezeway and garage off of the hallway with laundry and 1/2 bath. This was axed during budget cuts and garage moved to the walkout portion of the basement with the idea that it will be eventually added later on giving us everything we need on the main level as we get older. Link to finished pics below.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/jeremykovac/9V53ze
Jeremy: That's 26 corners on the first floor, 24 corners on the second. (The bump out on the kitchen is the difference.) That's a lot of extra thermal bridging, and a lot of extra detailing to get the air sealing locked in. (My less than ideal footprint is over the limit at 14 corners, and it does indeed affect the heat load per square foot numbers.)
The large gable valleys and dormer valleys would be serious snow traps in a central MA location, where two winters out of the past 20 have seen 10' of snowfall. (And I thought MY roof lines were a chore to shovel out after a bit nor'easter! )
I knew as soon as Drew asked me to post the first thing that would come up was the number of corners. Everyone seems to hate corners around this site, lol. Since my home is a timberframe a lot of the corners also have 8x10 to 10x12 timbers in the corners which adds some r-value. Luckily we don't get the kind of snow you get. 1.9Ach50 but should be better now after some work on garage duct work issues were addressed. Heat/air bill of just at or slightly under $700 at 11.7 cents per Kwh depending on the type of winter we get.
Jeremy - I am in awe!! The photos of your house are absolutely stunning and beautiful. High five on the project, man!! After seeing your place I'm inspired to add a little flair after seeing your house. Must... keep... budget... Although it seems that I would benefit with a little more 1st area floor space... I *completely* forgot about the carved wooden rocking horse I bought Mary! Where will it go??
Thanks Drew. I like the horse. I think you are on the right track in doing as much with the plans as you can yourself. There is a lot of opportunity for savings during your build depending on your skill level. With us doing our own plans and design we had about $2,000 total in construction drawings and that included paying the timberframe company to design the frame to our plans and get engineering approvals.
For the build, I was my own GC so we did a lot of work ourselves and subbed out the rest. Even with everything we did ourselves and serving as our own GC I had a hard time staying within budget which is why we axed the attached garage. I either had to downgrade finishes, downgrade my HVAC or insulating plans, or cut the garage. In the end moving the garage to the basement worked out fine and we can always add it on the main level later.
When everything was done we went from bare dirt to finished home with appliances and came in at about $123/sq ft. After finishing the basement and adding in that square footage it brings us down to $97 sq/ft. That does not include the price of the land. Keep in mind we are in NW Missouri and the cost to build here is pretty low.