GBA Logo horizontal Facebook LinkedIn Email Pinterest Twitter X Instagram YouTube Icon Navigation Search Icon Main Search Icon Video Play Icon Plus Icon Minus Icon Picture icon Hamburger Icon Close Icon Sorted

Community and Q&A

ccPSF Inside Wall with 1″ of XPS on th Exterior

johnwtaylor | Posted in Energy Efficiency and Durability on

Hi

This will be one of many questions I’ll have regarding our house that is in Marine Zone 4. and approx. 5 miles from the Building Science Coquitlam Test Hut. 

We are in the process of adding a 2nd floor to a 100 year old (2×4 wood construction) house.

The wall details (that are complete, see picture) from inside to out are:
2×6″ 16″ o.c
1/2″ plywood
Tyvek Homewrap
1/8″ x 1″ Vinyl strips – to allow for drying
1″ XPS
3/4″ Rain Screen Air Gap
Cedar Shingles

The wall are (mostly) protected from exterior rainfall (but not condensation) by a 48″ open rafter overhang.

I’ve been told the best way to finish the inside of the wall is ccPSF with a liquid vapor (required by code) barrier. It is possible that being a 100yo an argument can be made against the vapor barrier.

After reading articles and comments (Thank You Everyone!) on GBA I’m wondering if mineral wool with a vapor retarder is a better option?

Thank You
John

GBA Prime

Join the leading community of building science experts

Become a GBA Prime member and get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.

Replies

  1. Expert Member
    BILL WICHERS | | #1

    A vapor retarder is usually a safer choice than a vapor barrier on the interior when such a thing is required by code.

    Don't waste spray foam in a wall. While it's true spray foam gives a high R per inch number, the thermal bridging of the studs in a wall negate much of that advantage. Closed cell spray foam is especially bad here because it won't be filled to the full depth of the studs -- you'll have an air gap of around 1/2 to 1 inch on the interior side, which is around R3-R6 worth of performance reduction compared to what a full stud depth worth of spray foam would be. I would use mineral wool batts in the wall myself, along with a smart vapor retarder (Membrain, Intello, etc.) on the interior.

    I wouldn't use vinyl strips "for drying" here. I'd either allow for drying to the interior side only (which would be the case with mineral wool and a vapor retarder, for example), and I'd put the rigid foam directly against the sheathing. If you want more drying potential for the sheathing, use EPS instead of XPS -- EPS is more vapor open.

    Rain screens help a LOT with exterior drying, so you're good in your final exterior layers.

    Bill

    1. Expert Member
      MALCOLM TAYLOR | | #4

      Bill,

      Unfortunately the BC code requires an interior vapour barrier.

  2. johnwtaylor | | #2

    Hi Bill

    Thank You for the response

    The 1/8" x 1 vinyl has been installed. This was done because the building inspector (who has now moved on) required a vapor barrier on the inside.

    It vinyl will reduce the effectiveness of the 1" XPS but I would guess it's similar to using mineral wool.

    Thank You
    John

  3. Expert Member
    MALCOLM TAYLOR | | #3

    John,

    Are you removing the cladding on the first floor, or do you hope to do all the work from the inside?

    1. johnwtaylor | | #5

      Hi Malcom
      Cladding and Shiplap will be removed. The engineer wants the 2x4 balloon framing reinforced and sheer walls.

      It's hit and miss regarding air/water barriers. Our inspector said we have to have a vapor barrier. What he didn't tell us is we don't need a vapor barrier or even a vapor retarder if an Envelope Engineer gives the OK.

      Thanks
      John

      1. Expert Member
        MALCOLM TAYLOR | | #7

        John,

        If you build both the old and new walls with the assembly you have suggested (rain-screen and exterior foam), with batt insulation in the stud bays, an interior vapour-barrier, and drywall, you are reproducing (minus the rain-screen) what is now the standard wall assembly in Ontario. From all accounts it performs very well.

  4. Expert Member
    BILL WICHERS | | #6

    I think that's a code requirement for most, it not all, of Canada, correct? My brother in law is a builder outside of Toronto, and I remember when I first saw some of his projects I was surprised with the poly detailing EVERYWHERE. I didn't realize the OP was in Canada.

    Have you ever been able to use a smart vapor retarder instead of the poly vapor barrier? Have any inspectors been ok with that?

    Bill

    1. Expert Member
      MALCOLM TAYLOR | | #8

      Bill,

      It seems that with small amounts of exterior foam in the Canadian climate, poly vapour-barriers - as opposed to a vapour-retarder or variable-perm membrane - help improve the resiliency of the wall - or certainly do no harm. I think it was Jon who linked to a BSC article on the topic.

Log in or create an account to post an answer.

Community

Recent Questions and Replies

  • |
  • |
  • |
  • |