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Community and Q&A

Determining Lumens

cbut8995 | Posted in General Questions on

Were gut renovating and some people say our liughting is not enough and then there are those who say its overkill. What does the GBA community think? The location of the lights cant change given the ceiling restrictions we have and certain drop downs already down from when we purchased but all will be those standard recessed lighting like this facing down.

4 inch inside bathroom, living room, dining (RED) 1100 lumen each
6 inch inside hallways, closets, kitchen area, etc (BLUE) 1400 lumen each

LED 4” Regress Gimbal Round, Selectable CCT.

LED 6 inch Gimbal Round Selectable CCT

5 lights bathroom
11 lights bedroom
12 lights living room

This is a modern highrise in NYC so take that into account and not a country house or like home in the midwest. Our finishes will be super modern and mostly white walls and plain furniture haha

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Replies

  1. Expert Member
    BILL WICHERS | | #1

    Where you are (city/country/east coast/midwest) doesn't really change the light levels you want. Your eyes are the same sensitivity regardless.

    I think your light levels are a little on the high side in the dining and bed rooms, probably the bathroom too, maybe a bit low in the kitchen but it's hard to tell from the square footages and these are all just going by lumens per square foot.

    The biggest issue I see is the light placement. You never want lights BEHIND you when you're working, becaue your body will cast a shadow over your work area. This could be an issue in your kitchen, and your bed and dining rooms have all the lighting around the perimeter, but you'll probably need the light more towards the middle of the room -- especially in the dining room (where you'd want light over a dining table).

    I think you posted a similar question a day or two ago and I suggesting some indirect cove lighting in those areas if you can't run lighting to the center of the room? Remember that there are many options besides recessed cans to light a room.

    Bill

    1. cbut8995 | | #4

      Hi Bill,

      The bathroom lighting I made it 5 because like you mentioned in the past if I had 3 in the middle across the long way I think I would cast a shadow over my sink etc so I thought adding 2 more and have 4 in the walking area and 1 on top of the tub would be better. I could probably select the 650 lumen version light and have 5 of those instead of 5 of the 1100 lumen ones.

      The kitchen is very small but will be open. We have probably 3 Overhead lightings in the middle of the walkway each about 1400 lumens each, and 3 drop down pendant lightings over the sink area but those are more for looks than light I assume (wife requirement)

      For the bedroom and living room Im very restricted as theres a drop down soffit looking type of perimeter around the living room and bedroom where I can only fit the lights. I would love the add them in the middle but its just plaster on concrete in the middle and the cost for dropping that the middle portion or adding cove lighting was high for me.

  2. AC200 | | #2

    I'm not an expert, but have been reading and watching videos on lighting design. I think Bill is spot on, but your biggest issue is placement flexibility "The location of the lights cant change given the ceiling restrictions we have and certain drop downs already down from when we purchased but all will be those standard recessed lighting like this facing down."

    It would be good to have task lighting above your kitchen work surfaces and under cabinet if you have uppers. Your bedroom and living room are going to be as bright as sports stadiums.

    1. cbut8995 | | #3

      Hi Allan,

      I cant tell if thats bad or not haha. My wife really likes a really bright living area. Something like that is what we are okay with. We will have under cabinet lighting for sure.

      https://www.homestratosphere.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/1.-Recessed-lighting--870x580.jpg

  3. AC200 | | #5

    Your picture shows LED strip lighting in a ceiling cove. If that's an option, I think it would work really well in the living/dining room area with a couple well placed floor and table lights. Add a pendant/chandelier above the dining table and I think the lighting design will work well.

    If you want it super bright to clean at night or whatever you need bright light for, add 6 recessed and turn them all on.

    My bathroom is considerably larger than yours and I find 2 recessed turned on sufficient. I have other lights in the room but don't use them much. I still think if you can put lighting directly over the sink and counter, it would beneficial.

  4. Expert Member
    BILL WICHERS | | #6

    Remember that recessed lights are available in many different intensity levels. You need to consider both lighting intensity AND lighting placement. If you want a light over something, and it makes the light count in the room high, consider using lower intensity lights but more of them. The same holds true in reverse, fewer lights of higher intensity. Try not to focuse only on the number of lights, or only on the intensity of the lighting.

    What you want to try for is bright lights in places it's needed, such as a bathroom sink or kitchen counter. You want even light in rooms like closets, and sometimes dining and bed rooms. Dining rooms have the added complexity of a dining table, and what I like to do there is have one lighting fixture dedicated to the table, and then area lights (which can be a bunch of cans) around the perimeter. Put them on seperate circuits, so that you can control them independently.

    Never underestimate the usefulness of dimmers. In my above mentioned dining room example, it's very nice to be able to set the table lights to a "bright enough for dinner" level, while keeping the area lights in the room more subdued. It's simple to put this in, and lets you change the mood of the room based on what you want to do at any given time or day.

    Bill

  5. Jon_Lawrence | | #7

    I went through this exercise with my new build 2-years ago and I have a few suggestions based on my experience.

    I have a couple of bedrooms similar size to what you are showing and I am using 4 - 4" Halo regressed can-less lights (800 lumens) set to 3000k on a dimmer. They provide the perfect amount of light at 3/4 of the full setting. I also have a center fixture in each of the bedrooms on its own dimmer. If both dimmers are set to 2/3, again I get the perfect amount of lighting. In the master and guest bedroom I also placed 2 - 2" gimbals over the beds for reading lights. I am very glad I did. I think this layout would work well for your bedroom.

    My living room is 23' x 19' with a coffered ceiling. The coffer has 9 rectangular boxes. In the row in the center of the room I have a fixture in the center box and speakers in the outside boxes. In the two outside rows I have 6 of the 4" Halos. I also have 2 sconces on the walls. The Halos and the center fixture provide all the ambient lighting and sconces are for accent lighting. I believe either 6 - 4" recessed with a center fixture or 9 - 3" recessed without a center fixture would work fine in your living room.

    My dining room is 17' x 15' with a 10' table. I have 6 - 3" gimbals around the perimeter and 3 drum pendants centered over the table, which combined provide the ambient and task lighting. This room has a cove and I wired it for LED accent lighting, but I have not installed it yet.

    My kitchen has pendants over the island and the 4" Halos over the walking paths, separate dimmers for each. When we are cooking, we have both sets of lights on, otherwise just the island lights when we are hanging out there. I think your kitchen could use 2 island pendants and 2 - 4" recessed on each side of the island. You may want to consider a 3" gimbal above the stove.

    I think you need another recessed light where the arrow is on your drawing.

    My 6' x 10' bathrooms have a 9" center fixture (1000 lumens) and a recessed in the shower each on its owns switch. They provide all the ambient lighting needed. What is lacking is the task lighting when using the mirror. The master has mirrors with LED lights and I planned to use the same in the other bathrooms (I have an outlet behind the mirror location), but decided to go with medicine cabinets instead. I plan on adding a fixture over the mirrors in the future.

    With respect to switches/dimmers, I used mostly Legrand. They are very modern and sleek looking, can be controlled with a mobile device if you get the WiFi switches, and they work with Alexa, Google, etc.

    A few general comments:

    I think 6” recessed are obsolete and unattractive. There was a time when 6” were needed to get the required lumens and beam spread. However, the current generation of 4” can provide what is needed. I am even using 3” in my 48” hallways and they have enough beam spread to light up wall to wall.

    Dimmers you give you a lot of margin for error.

    I try to keep my perimeter lights about 30” from any wall. That seems to provide just enough light on the wall. I also found that keeping the 4” Halos about 5’ apart with both 9’ and 10’ ceiling avoided any dark areas.

    There are some amazing modern light fixtures available today that are both functional and decorative. I like the quality and the styling of lights from WAC and Tech lighting. I get more comments on my light fixtures than anything else.

    I like to set the lights in the bathrooms to 4000k, kitchen and living areas to 3500k and bedrooms to 3000k. I don’t like either end of the spectrum, 2700 is too yellow for me and over 4000 is too blue for me.

  6. the74impala | | #8

    Think layers

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