Most “bomb-proof” shower floor and walls
We’re constructing a new shower on a concrete slab.
I’d appreciate recommendations for the most “bomb-proof” approach to ensure decades of leak-proof use.
Years ago we had a skilled, experienced “old-timer” do a tar paper, chicken wire and mud base with 4″ tiles over it all. Despite being in a 1929 house with somewhat creaking floors, there’s not been any sense of leaks (no mold smells, no visible signs from the basement below, etc.
Fast forward. Our contractor wants to use the Emser Tile “Empervious” system.
Empervious – Emser Exclusive Shower System — Emser Tile
This is a “no go” for me because the wall joins the floor and depends on tape for the seal.
There are a variety of stock and custom shower pans with flanges and different approaches to the walls. We plan to have custom tile on the floor and walls (and ceiling). Ideally, we’d use a linear pan the runs the long way in order to minimize the maximum slope of the floor.
I’m “old school” and have a bias towards “mesh & mud” but would like to hear all opinions. FWIW, this is a single shower and we’re not particularly “price-sensitive” — we’re looking for hassle-free.
Thanks!
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Replies
I haven't used Empervious specifically. But I've used similar systems like Goboard, where they're sheets of dense closed-cell foam with a more durable facing, I think they are quite bomb proof. And getting the details right are much easier with these systems, than say Schluter board where in my personal opinion are more difficult to get the details right, and are less bombproof becasue the foam core is an open cell or at least its softer so more prone to damage and rely only on the face fleece for waterproofing. The softness usually isn't an issue for tile, since the tile protects the board, but since I do microcement for wet areas, this plays more of a factor for me.
Just a note that the seams for empervious doesn't look like they're to be jointed with tape, but Polyurethane with mesh tape for reinforcement and thickness. I based this looking at thier website. But I'll say that a good polyurethane is pretty durable, I trust it way more than a standard cementitious material like mortar in this application.
If you wanted to be extra bomb-proof, you could over-coat the whole system with Ardex 8 + 9. (which also uses a mesh tape for the corners). I did this with a custom integrated bathtub I recently built. This was on a second floor so the stakes were high for water damage. I was confident with the base waterproofing, but the Ardex 8+9 layer gave me redundancy that was worth the time and cost in my eyes.
Also, look at Tile Redi pans, or the Tile redi system. I haven't used it myself as its a US only thing, but they have linear drain ready pans. The pans come in a variety of sizes or a custom size, and that allows the pan edges to go up the wall and have the wall joint 6 inches up from the floor. Compared to a cut to size pan where the wall joint is at the bottom corner (as you pointed out you didn't enjoy). They also make solid surface pans, so you don't have to tile the floor it at all, if you like white.
Hope this helps,
Jamie
jamie,
I've used Tile-redi pans. They are available in Canada. HD stocks them. A lot easier than thick mortar-beds, or proprietary membranes.
Tile Redi offers custom pans, to0.
Paul,
Thanks, I've amended my post.
The four showers I did with them were for a resort where they get heavy use. Ten years later they problem-free.
Jamie -- Thanks so much for the thoughtful comments.
I'm leaning towards a custom Tile Reddi pan and probably walls because the walls horizontal joints lap.
I watched the multi-part Empervious installation videos, and the wall to pan joint is mesh tape and sealant. While I'm sure a lot of installations are done right, I thought it was instructive that the installer made a couple mistakes, which he corrected, but would an installer get every joint properly sealed and stabilized?
I also like the optional flashing for the joint of the lowest wall panel above the side of the pan.
-- Paul
Whatever system you go with I would look at applying ardex 8+9 over the top before installing thin set and tile. It’s a super bomber cementacious epoxy that is very waterproof.
Ardex 8+9 looks interesting. However, I don't see how it would be needed with the Tile Rite pan, flashing of the fist wall panel, and lapped upper panels, except maybe for the panels' side-to-back joints?
Also, here is a test that showed Ardex 8+9 leaking. 😯
https//youtu.be/4B7_q2D3uRQ
Other tests I've seen seem to demonstrate that liquid membranes can be very effective, but they are *very* susceptible to application deficiencies.
Water has a way of finding its way through. It may not be necessary, but a monolithic waterproof membrane if pretty cheap insurance. Especially since your tile redi already needs an epoxy to adhere your tile to it.
Also you asked for the most “bomb-proof”
I think that Tile Redi's pans no longer require epoxy.
As far as membranes ... I place a lot of trust in the durability of something like Henry's 60-mil Blueskin or SIGA's Majvest 500 SA. Liquid "membranes," not so much.
Paul,
It looks like now you put down a thin bed of thin-set instead. That's a lot more forgiving.
We've used one-piece custom shower pans - both with and without built-in flanges off the sides - from KBRS. They are a fairly dense foam with a surface that's ready for tile without using epoxy. Easier and much faster to install than Tile-Redi. I think we have a dozen or more out there with no leaks or issues. Have also used Schluter Kerdi membranes over various wall substrates and field-sloped mortar beds with great results.
I couldn't find the precise description, but it seems to me that the system uses separate pieces for the flange and a liquid membrane, factory or user (for custom) applied.
Hi user,
I have used Everlast Epoxy floor in a shower. Mudbase with schluter on top and epoxy on that. Absolutely bomber method, no dirty grout, stays dry, easy to clean, not slippery. After 6 years it has been the best shower I have built. This is unconventional and not something I would do for a client, but on my own home its awesome. Good luck.
https://www.everlastepoxy.com/shower-floors-walls/
If your shower is not a stock size, as far as I'm concerned an old-fashioned mud base is the best, with one change. From the bottom: tar paper or other decoupling membrane; a preslope set in expanded metal lathe; a waterproof membrane (fluid applied is fine); then the mud base, then the new item: Kerdi membrane or similar. All properly sloped and leading to a properly installed drain. This is the industry document of standards and worth having if you're a designer, builder or tile installer: https://tcnatile.com/products/publications/2025-tcna-handbook-for-ceramic-glass-and-stone-tile-installation/.
As a sidebar ... The best and most problem free shower I've ever used is an outdoor, solar heated 🌅shower on the Big Island 🏝️with a simple slab floor and slotted wood visual screen.
Sadly, not a great option in Oregon. 😔