New heat pump water heater option?
Trevor_Lambert
| Posted in General Questions on
I haven’t seen a new offering since I built my home 8 years ago, but today I noticed that Arctic Heat Pumps, who have been around with air-to-water space heating for a while, now list a line of domestic hot water heaters. Does anyone know if this is a legitimately new option, or just a private labelling of an existing brand? I took a quick look at images of the three major brands and none look very close to the Arctic pictures.
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If it's the standalone one,
https://www.arcticheatpumps.com/stand-alone-heat-pump-water-heater.html
The picture on that Arctic page with the phone app (where it says "Smart Water Heater") has a PHNIX logo on the water heater (instead of the Arctic logo) so it appears it is likely a private label unit made by these people:
https://www.phnix-e.com/
I think there's a few new units in the past few years. LG released a unit recently, after announcing it a few years ago.
Yes, that certainly appears to be the same. As far as I'm aware though, that PHNIX unit hasn't been on the market here before. It doesn't look like you can buy from them directly. So in that sense, it's still a new option.
I don't see anywhere it's possible to buy the LG water heater, or even any hard evidence it actually exists. There's a press release about it on LG's website, but no product listing. I think this water heater is to LG what full self driving is to Tesla, i.e. vaporware.
You asked if it was a private labeling of an existing brand, which it is, even though it may be a new option in this market.
Google says you can buy the LG at SupplyHouse; 58 and 80 gal are both in stock (LG HPWH, top of the page result).
Yes, I didn't word my question correctly, but what I was trying to determine if it was just a duplicate offering to something already available.
The LG Heat Pump Water Heater is definitely availabe.
The LG Heat Pump Water Heater definitely has a huge premium over other HPWH's.
Per EnergyStar.gov (can we still trust that?) the PHNIX - KA06-80 has the highest UEF of any availabe HPWH rated by energystar.gov. It does not appear to available in the states, but it retails for $2,780 CAD in Canada (rebranded as a "VY Build" product), which is about $2014 US as of today. However, it is a Chinese product, and with the new tarriffs, I doubt it will be affordable in the US. IAt dba of 43, with operating temp range from 23-105F, and 80 gallon capacity this product has better specs than the LG.
The 58 gallon LG retails for between $2k-$3.7k in the US, but it also has a 10 year warranty, UEF under 4, and similar dba to the above (LG published spec sheets that list the dba as ranging from 42 to 52). I'm ambivalent on LG's warranties - I had a warranty claim with them on a refrigerator that they said they could not honor because they claimed they had no qualified techs in my major metropolitan area (top 10-15 in population size in the US). Fortunately, I bought the refrigerator at Costco, so called their conceirge services and told them to either get me warranty service or replace the fridge. Miraculously, LG found a warranty tech, who drove 4 hours, spent about 10 minutes fixing the fridge and then drove 4 hours back...Based on this experience, I would only buy LG product for which I want to rely upon the warranty from a retailer whom I could induce to go to bat for me.
Yeah, it stands to reason that PHNIX units branded as Arctic will also be unpalatable with tariff pricing.
The 80 gallon Arctic/PHNIX is currently $2442 USD on Arctic's site.
Edit: Oh, nevermind. I didn't realize Arctic was in Canada, I thought they were a US company. So, different tariff status.
Since all of these are a vapor compression cycle, aren't all of them vapor ware?
P.S. HPWH is still not worth it in Canada. They just cost too much. PV + resistance heater is a much better option.
Yeah, you're right. The only advantage to the Artic one is that it seems like a homeowner can actually buy it, unlike most of the other brands. I'm seeing ads on Facebook now for Midea heat pump water heaters, but if I click for more information it gives me a form where I have to enter my company name (not optional), which tells me they will only sell to contractors, which is the same story for AO Smith, Bradford White, and Stiebel Eltron.
I got a response from Arctic, and he says I can get a better price than what is shown on their website if I request a formal quote. I will report back if I get pricing info.
While we're loosely on-topic, it appears that AO Smith and Panasonic have a joint product development relationship, and are releasing a unit this year that is functionally similar to the SANCO2 unit. CO2 refrigerant, exterior monoblock unit, lowboy tank option (yes!!!!!), looks like a direct competitor. Panasonic put out a press release to coincide with the AO Smith booth release at the AHR show in February.
No idea on pricing, but I'm pretty excited because I have the same dimensioned AO Smith electric tank in the conditioned crawl, so I know everything will fit. Hopefully a lower cost than the SANCO2.
Every person I've ever encountered who was interested in a SANCO2 ended up being told by the company -- after a long back-and-forth -- that the product wouldn't work for them.
I have no idea how they stay in business.
I've had them installed on three projects in Maine for 6-10 years now and aside from one freeze-up, which they replaced without hesitation, they have worked without trouble.
I would be all over a lowboy option, especially if it came with a non-corrosive tank and all the mechanicals were outside. I doubt it would be affordable, but one can wish...
Any literature on this?
Googling produces a Sanco HP for combined heating/hot water, and a HPWH sold in New Zealand with a standard tank and exterior compressor, but the good news is they have compressors using CO2 as refrigerant!
ETA: Found a press release at the link below.
Looks like they will bring the HPWH's and Air to Water HP's Panasonic already sells in New Zealand to the US, perhaps branded as AO Smith. Based on the info in the press release, I'm not expecting anything to come to market until 2029...
https://news.panasonic.com/uploads/tmg_block_page_image/file/29971/en250210-2-1.pdf
ETA #2: Since virtually every home has a water heater, and many homes have dehumidifiers, seems what we really need is a non-corrosive WH tank, and a separate compressor unit that can be installed where people install their dehumidifiers (crawl space, spray foamed attic)...
Here's the info from AO Smith at AHR. That's what I stumbled across, aside from the Panasonic press release.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oI-J9T2pzMs
Thanks - nice to see the video showing it with a low boy.