Too weak HVAC v. disconnected main line 12 with black insert not pulled out
Hello, I didn’t have air flow in half my home after a “new” HVAC was installed. for perhaps 14 months. The HVAC contractor sold me a used weak 35CFM unit and my home required 135 CFM . The unit he sold me was out of date, with a filthy condenser installed with numerous code violations. The new HVAC company reported this to me and I had a new system installed. Long before this installation, I had new ductwork installed by an unlicensed tech He said his company was incorporated and licensed. The heat was unbearable for 14 month. I got a new HVAC company to install a brand NEW HVAC. The day after, there still wasn’t” air flow in half the house. They tasted and told me I needed another vent installed to cool that half of the house. They went up and found that the Main Duct Line 12 was not connected. The black insert was never pulled out and connected to another duct. They connected it. Everything was immediately okay.Now, my question is: was my home not getting air flow because of the first weak HVAC system or was it the duct work not being connected? How can I prove the duct work issue going back 14 months? What was at fault first? Or ??? How can techs going into the attic miss the disconnection for 14 months? Thank you very much
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It sounds like the first HVAC contractor never commissioned your system. This is done by confirming the correct air flow through each of the ducts while the system is operating. Had this been done, the issue would have been discovered early on. Usually commissioning happens inside the home, not in the attic. Once the issue was found, someone would need to enter the attic to determine why there was no or limited air flow.
Hope this helps,
Randy
Thank you for your response, first HVAC was 3 ton. 45 CFMs. Home is 1330 sq. feet. Second HVAC company said I need 145 CFM. Condenser was used, filthy, out-dated. No HERZ test. The duct guy left two sections dis-connected. Did not even pull out black bag insert. Never did the HERZ test. Did not use #89 inch ties to code. Second reputable HVAC company found these problems. There are also reportedly hay wires (???) that are non insulated.I don't know where they are. I am worried about a fire risk. I am a widow and have no one. Thank you.
Thank you of your post. The ductwork installer did not do the HERZ test. He left it dis-connected as I stated. The first HVAC guy tried to scam me by installing an old, weak, filthy system. He inflated the city permit by $3200 (set fee $500) He came and removed it all . Second HVAC company found the dis-connect, installed the new vent for $800 and then did the HERZ tests. I'm asking for help with unwires to these questions, if you can help, I would appreciate it. I am a widow and have no one else to turn to for expert unbiassed answers. Thank you.
The first question is has anyone done a manual J calculation for your home?
I hate rules of thumb but how many square feet is the home and how many tons of equipment was installed?
In general the ductwork will need to move 1000 CFM per ton of equipment to work properly.
Your statement about 35CFM does not compute.
I also think HVAC equipment and ductwork in attics is a very bad idea.
Walta
My HVAC system is in my garage and the filthy old condenser is outside. The scam artist HVAC company installed my first 3 ton system with CFM of 45. Not enough to cool/heat my 1330 sq ft home that needed 135CFM. He tried to say it was 4 ton on the invoice so he could get more money but I called the city permit dept. to verify our original HVAC was 3 tons. He did not do the HERZ test- told me a permit was un-necessary and to forget it. Duct work guy did not do the HERZ test left Main Line 12 disconnected. Did not pull out black bag insert. Did not use #89 ties to Code. ONLY when the day AFTER the second HVAC system was installed did I find out about the dis-connect. There wasn't any air flow. He tests it Said I needed another vent $800 which I had to agree to. Then there was air flow. I asked hims to go up and check the ductwork. He found the dis-connect which I had lived with for 5 months. I have breathing issues so he put me at risk. Later the HERZ test passed. Thank you for your response. I am a recent widow and have no one to ask.
please refer to my reply to Randy if you don't see the reply I sent to you. THANK YOU
You can ask to see the tech's license, and you can verify it with your state if you're suspicious. You should also make sure the contractors you use are insured, which you do by requesting that they have a copy of the "accord" form sent to you, which will be sent to you from their insurance company, it will NOT come from the contractor's own people. In the trades, this is known as "proof of insurance", and the Accord form will list all the dollar limits for the contractor's policy.
Bill
Thank you, we did business with the first business for 30 plus years for servicing etc. He owns a HUGE local HVAC company. He is insured. BUT he didn't want the City Permit. Why should he? If I had it, he couldn't pass on this old 45 CFM 3 ton unit and filthy used condenser with lawn clippings inside. (No lawns here for years in drought CALIF,) He put me on to the duct work guy who lied about being licensed and incorporated. I got FED UP after 5 months of no AC. He kept saying my home was to blame. I do want to report him and also the duct work guy to the State but I don't know what to report? The weak HVAC? the duct work guy? Both? How do I make my case fly. I am a widow with no one to ask so I sincerely appreciate your kindness. Thank you
You can get solvents to use to clean the condenser, but it works best to be blown out in the opposite direction of normal airflow, which is usually in the direction from inside the unit to outside. It's common to clean these, I recommend you call around and find a mechanical contractor (commercial way to say "HVAC contractor") that will do the work for you. You could try calling the manufacturer and see if they can recommend someone in your area -- doing it that way usually ensures you get someone who will do a decent job.
Regarding reporting the contractor to the state, you would call your state's licensing agency/bureau, and report a contractor that claimed to be a licensed mechanical contractor but who was not. Contractors aren't supposed to do work that is supposed to be done by licensed personnel if they don't hold the correct license for the type of work they're doing. This all varies state by state, and I don't work in California, so I can't give you more than some general advice here, unfortunately.
Bill
I generally think it is better to replace both the indoor and outdoor parts of the system at the same time.
Is that what happened?
You said the equipment they installed was used. That would be very unusual and it seems very unlikely they could convince you that it was brand new.
Assuming the old 3 ton system was able to cool the house when it was working correctly installing larger equipment would be a mistake but happens very often.
Please post photos of the tags with model numbers for both the indoor and outdoor units.
Note when you said “HERZ test” I think you mean HERS test. It seems to be a newer requirement in California this test will likely add a thousand dollars to your bill.
This contractor SCAMMED me. It's too involved to get into every lousy detail here. I'm a widow and handicapped- the "perfect victim" even from a company that serviced my original 3 ton unit for THIRTY YEARS.