Designing a detached garage – concept review and general advice?
Our home build is well underway and now it is time to think about the garage build. While we have a great contractor building our home, we have to do the garage on our own because they are way too expensive. We intend to work with another local builder who specializes in sheds, garages, etc. He is a good guy but doesn’t exactly specialize in building science, so I want to do what I can and thought getting some feedback from experts on here would be a great help!
– We went with a sort of “modern farmhouse” style but I would say more modern than farmhouse…
– On the house we are doing exposed fastener black steel (vertical ribbing) with factory finished charcoal wood accents. We are thinking to use the exact same steel on the garage.
– I want to keep the garage structure very simple to build, not that these guys are not good builders but they are used to very traditional construction so I think anything too out of the ordinary could cause issues. For instance, our home has a zero overhang detail and this is a very tricky detail to get right so while I mostly trust our home builder with this due to their level of expertise and skill, I don’t think it would be a good idea to copy this with the shed builder for the garage.
– With the 10:12 roof we were intending to have a little storage loft space in the garage, but stairs take up so much space and then we need a railing and it’s more complicated all-around so probably more expensive.
– I am wondering about ditching the gabled roof and going with a sloped mono roof with overhang. It is more modern but I think it might complement the house better than a gabled roof with added overhang.
– I think the builder typically does plywood, untaped, with Typar on top for walls… We are mindful of budget but we do want to keep water out of the structure and ensure it is long-lasting so if it makes sense to do a few upgrades/design improvements I think we should try!
Here is some additional context:
– Garage ~ 40 ft from house, to serve as parking for 1-2 vehicles with EV charger
– Flexible functional work space for shop area, we want to learn how to build stuff and try different hobbies
– Storage space for landscaping tools and equipment on an agricultural property
– Storage space for woodworking tools and equipment, mostly electric so lots of battery charging
– Future backup battery bank for the house (future PV array on house roof) so we will have to insulate at least a little section for these
– It would be ideal to have climate control so things don’t get rusty inside, also nice to have a comfortable-ish temp year round to be able to use the space. However, there is only so much we can do with garage doors that are inevitably super leaky so I wonder about sectioning off a portion inside to insulate.
– Not sure if we will insulate the whole thing now or in the future, but I thought some mineral wool would be a good idea. I don’t know if there would be an attic or how the ventilation would work.
– No clue about the roof/attic construction details.
– A bit of natural light is nice but we prefer smaller/higher windows for security.
Sooo I guess my first questions are:
1. Conceptually, what do you think about the look of these structures together? Do you prefer the gabled roof garage or the mono roof?
2. What level of insulation, if any, would be appropriate? Climate zone 6, heavy snow area!
3. What angle of roof is most practical? If it is too flat it becomes an issue but if it is too steep the structure gets awkward looking.
4. Would you put windows above the garage doors or simply in the garage doors with empty space above? I think it looks better with windows above but I am not really sure how the hanging garage door openers work with a vaulted ceiling and windows there.
5. Any general advice I should consider for this kind of structure?
Basically I am thinking I can come up with a simple design and then work with this local builder to prepare the construction drawings. I will ask him if we can have a chance to review the details and make any tweaks/adjustments, he seems super relaxed and willing to build whatever we want but I am mindful of the fact that a lot of advanced details do require training and experience so expecting anyone to be able to do this might be unrealistic. And obviously I am very far from qualified to design something like this but overall I know whatever we end up with will be structurally fine as I won’t be doing it alone. Since it is not a home, I really don’t know how much it matters to have a good AB and vapour control layer or much insulation, giant garage doors seem to override all of this.
Sorry, despite many words this is still quite vague. It might be better for me to design something rough and then get details from the builder or get preliminary drawings so I can share that here and get feedback. For now, any advice is much appreciated!!
Thanks
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Replies
Following with interest. I am considering building a similar garage and I am also looking at a low slope roof. In my case, want to minimize the impact on view lines from the house.
For your questions:
1. Conceptually, what do you think about the look of these structures together? Do you prefer the gabled roof garage or the mono roof?
I'm not the one to ask but I personally think that it can work well to use a different roof that makes it clear that the garage is a secondary building (while maintaining many elements of the style/exterior finishes).
2. What level of insulation, if any, would be appropriate? Climate zone 6, heavy snow area!
You are going to be bringing in wet cars and wanting them to dry off. You will probably be storing all sorts of stuff that you don't want to get covered in mildew. You might store paints and other items that can't drop below freezing. You might want to use the space as a workshop, gym, etc. in the future. Assume that the space is heated and therefore insulation is a good investment. It comes down to a calculation based on how long you will live there. If you plan on heating this garage every winter for the next 30 years, you probably won't regret installing more insulation today. As you've pointed out, garage doors are a major weakness in this building. You can do calculations to figure out where to get the most bang for your buck. For example, it might make sense to spend the money on higher quality doors instead of an increase in insulation in the walls or attic.
3. What angle of roof is most practical? If it is too flat it becomes an issue but if it is too steep the structure gets awkward looking.
One way to start is by choosing your roof material (shingles, metal, etc.) and then look up the minimum slope.
One important decision: Do you want the ceiling to be sloped as well? You can have a sloped roof with a flat ceiling.
4. Would you put windows above the garage doors or simply in the garage doors with empty space above? I think it looks better with windows above but I am not really sure how the hanging garage door openers work with a vaulted ceiling and windows there.
Windows up there may look better but they won't have much utility, will add a bunch of complex details, will be tricky to clean, and will leak energy. I'd take a close look at various types of lights you could install instead.
5. Any general advice I should consider for this kind of structure?
If it's practical, a washroom with mud shower/dog shower and utility sink for projects are very nice to have in a garage.
For garage heat, you may consider two types of systems.
A) Something that will be very silent, slow, and energy efficient to keep the garage at your desired unoccupied setpoint temperature (e.g. 45 degrees F).
B) Something that will be able to very quickly make the space comfortable if you want to use it for working on a project.
If you don't have the ability to quickly ramp up the temperature in a garage, then you tend to keep it warmer than it needs to be 80% of the time. It's counter-intuitive but installing a large heater in a garage can lead to reduced overall consumption. Of course, that large heater may not be appropriate for maintaining a low set point for most of the time which is why you might want to look at two systems. (e.g. a few small baseboards or in-wall units for maintaining the setpoint and a large overhead forced air unit for quickly ramping up when needed.)
Thank you! We have a similar goal to minimize the view of the garage roof. I was shocked to discover the original gable roof garage would literally consume like 90% of the window view on the west side of the house. We don’t have many west windows but the ones we do should not be facing nearly entirely black sheet metal! It’s mainly the upstairs hallway and laundry room so not the end of the world, but I think this low sloped roof structure looks much nicer.
Ok, so this is the steel we are using on the house both for the roof and siding so I think we can use the same for the garage as it is super affordable. We did the wrinkle coat black finish and it’s quite nice. The wide ribbing looks enough like standing seam from a distance, but the price is obviously much much lower. https://www.agwaymetals.com/product/optimum-rib/ - honestly I do not know how to read the load table.
For sizing, it is flexible but I am thinking depth should be enough to fit a pickup and a shallow storage on the back wall, maybe 26ft ish? 2 garage doors makes sense. We might not necessarily keep 2 cars inside but at least we could… At one end I think it would be great to have enough space for a little shop area, I was thinking about 14ft X 8ft (ish) but of course there is a lot more space for storage shelving on the back wall and other side of garage, and moving the vehicles out would give a lot of work space for any projects. The struggle of designing a space for a shop when you don’t yet know how to do much of anything is… tricky. I figure if we have enough space and utilities, we can figure out the details later as we learn how to use the tools and try building stuff.
Great reminder about adding plumbing, I did think of this and we have plumbing and electrical ready nearby to run into the garage. I don’t think we will do a toilet, maybe a composting outhouse nearby, but I think we need a utility sink. A dog wash would be a DREAM. Originally planned this in our mudroom but deleted due to cost. We don’t need a tiny little fancy tile thing, it could be really basic in the garage and would be so good for big muddy dogs as well as misc cleaning. We did buried hydro, many hundreds of ft from the road, and we decided to add a 2nd 200amp line for the garage. Infinite power!
As for insulation, thanks for the feedback. Seems about right. I think part of me wishes we could just skip it and build a crappy uninsulated garage, but as you point out - we are in fact planning to live here for 30 years (hopefully more like 50!). I am hoping that we are saving a bit of money by getting rid of the gabled roof and big loft area so this $ could be used for insulation. Just an uneducated guess.
So I just modelled something, really really rough so keep in mind the walls are currently 0” thick! But I find this really helps me to visualize stuff in 3D quickly… the slab measures 26’ X 38’. Rear wall is 8’ height (I figure it would just have a run of shallow ~ 6ft tall shelving so this seems fine. But of course there is no framing, my roof is only 6” thick - hah. Anyway front (garage door) wall is 11’-9” which is a bit random… The doors are 10’W X 8’H.
I thought it might be nice to somehow inset the entry door so it is covered but without needing to tack on a porch structure (one more piece of complexity/risk). If we add a covered entry roof, it is right across from the house entry porch which is flat and I think because they are so close they would have to match, so it might be easier to avoid. Not sure how one builds that but seems easy enough.
For now, I only have 2 south windows plus the tiny ones part of the doors. I think you are probably right about avoiding the windows above garage doors. Part of me thinks it looks much better, but it doesn’t really make sense functionally and it is just something else to later go wrong.
So check out my rough idea and let me know what you think! (Back wall is open so you can see inside!) The shop area could be on the right with a nice south window and garden view! I am thinking we could build some kind of insulated battery bank compartment here. I really don’t know how much space we need for that, but it seems they can be stacked vertically. And this structure could serve as a little divider between the entry area, maybe with the dog wash and a bench, and the little shop area. Also featuring a truck that conveniently resembles our dream Tacoma 😂
Well this is all over the place… but the big questions are:
1. What is the best way to frame this roof? Flat ceiling or sloped? (My guess is that flat might be easiest and allows for a ventilated insulated attic?)
2. How on earth do I even start to comprehend the wall assembly if we don’t want the shed builder’s standard?
One important aspect of designing multiple buildings, especially in a rural setting, is the concept of creating outdoor rooms between the buildings. This is discussed in architect Sarah Susanka's series of books "The Not So Big House" and also referred to as "negative space" in the book "A Pattern Language" by Christopher Alexander. In other words, don't just place a second building "wherever" - use it to create a space that is used like a room - just outdoors.
Secondly, all the buildings should relate to each other. Your garage roof should reference your house roof (it can be a little different with an overhang) but by choosing a gable design the height of the eave over the garage doors will better protect them from rain (rather than the two story height of the shed roof).
Can you do a mock-up of the plan you want, either using graph paper or an online architectural software program to show us your initial design?
I think a gabled structure will look much better plus give you more attic space for storage. I would frame the garage roof with mini room trusses so it can hold weight. Stairs are nice but you can also use a ladder or one of those attic stairs if you don't want to take up floor space.
If you can spec the roof trusses with 2x8 top chord, you can insulate at the roof line with 2x6 batts while still leaving enough room for a vent gap.
I would go for 2x6 for walls and insulate with cheap batts.
Cover everything with either drywall or OSB/CDX. Wood tends to hold up better to abuse and you don't have to mud and tape.
A shed roof would make sense if you are looking to install a larger PV array than a gabled roof can hold.
In my opinion, a shed roof would look fine, but don't go with a pitch that is too low, relative to the house. A steeper slope will allow for the windows above the garage doors, which I think would be great for privacy, natural light and visual appeal. This roof type will also help keep the overhang from looking so odd compared to the house. Of course, you don't want it to be so steep that it looks like a monstrosity!
The roof can be framed with rafters and a closed cell spray foam insulation so that it doesn't need to be ventilated. Insulated garage doors are available as well. The better approach, I think, would be to create a "shop" in one end of the garage with insulated walls and roof in that area only. If you want snow to melt off of your cars, an overhead radiant heater would work, and don't forget to slope the garage floor toward the doors slightly or provide a drain.
Another option for the roof would be mono-sloped trusses (which could be built as attic trusses to provide storage space.) Trusses would be the cheapest option and could be used over the whole building or potentially just the shop space. False windows are a thing, too. I have used them in designs where a full height window couldn't be used on the inside, but kept the exterior looking cohesive. Of course, there are many creative (and cheap) ideas for accenting the space above the doors so that it isn't just a blank wall. Even creating a pattern with the steel siding would look great.
If you are going to heat/cool a space, you must insulate it per the energy code. Your local building department (or architect) can tell you what is required. That would include some insulation below the slab as well in your climate zone. Mineral wool is the best bet for all your insulation as it is very water and mold resistant, doesn't burn easily, and is easy to install.
Hope this is helpful!
Thanks!! I guess it’ll partially come down to what the builder says, as it will be a fixed cost so kind of depends which style he says will cost less to build.
I agree the gable roof looks nice but since the architect did such a steep roof without overhangs, I think it looks odd if the garage nearly matches but is slightly off. It reminds me of why I hate very slight asymmetry - if you’re going to do something, you better really DO IT and go ALL THE WAY. I can test in 3D though.
Akos, you raise a good point about the loft ladder instead of stairs.
If we do gable, the garage doors have to be on the gable end as the builder mentioned we won’t want the doors under the sides because there will be huge amounts of snow piling up. We are building in a high snow area, so it’ll slide right off the roof and land in front of the garage doors. With the width of 2 doors and storage space on the sides, the structure gets quite wide and creates extremely tall peak at 10:12. I suppose we could do a lower peak and I can test this in 3D later.
Rockies, thank you! That is exactly what I’m talking about. It’s frustrating because the house is done so there is not much I can do. I really wanted the structures to be integrated, and I wanted a breezeway or covered area here. I am not an architect and it’s too overwhelming to try to integrate the structures at this point. There were so many options, I wanted a pergola or covered work area or something. The area between will currently be mostly a gravel courtyard area. Might be able to get some garden space in but the area is getting quite compacted now as our central construction zone. We will put a garden shed nearby so it’ll be a central junction/access point.
It would have been lovely to create an outdoor room somewhere, this is what we wanted and we ended up with a big house with a bunch of wasted space and no deck, screen porch or any kind of attached slatted wood structure which we wanted for pretty vining plants and summer shade. Now we have to design and build an entirely separate garden structure because there is no chance we will be hanging outside south of the house in full sun with no shade coverage.
I can play around with options in 3D. We will put storage along the sides of garage so it might be good for that stuff to have a bit of insulation too. But I like the idea of extra insulation around the shop area at one end. It’s just hard to close off the space in a small structure.
I'm in the land of older coach houses which are typically gabled. Two car does mean a steep roof for it to look right but also means more storage. Overall, they look pretty nice, I especially like the cross gabled ones.
There's an awful lot going on with your goals and project. I'll just address a few issues that popped out at me.
We recently bought a old house that we wanted to gut renovate. We also needed a new garage. Like you, the architect we hired designed a brand new detached garage and also sympathetically redesigned the old house to modern standards and layout. We built the garage first and while it was pricey, everyone who visits mentions how it fits so well on the property and accents and compliments the old house design. Even the zoning authorities complimented us on how well it fits with the existing architecture. So my first point is: make sure your garage design somewhat matches your house and doesn't stick out.
Second, insulate now!
Third, make sure you have low enough windows either in your garage doors or on the front, that you can see out of when inside your garage or working in your new shop.
Fourth, they make insulated garage doors. Again, pricey, but if you're going to be working in there....
Fifth, heat the place with either a mini-split or even radiant floor. Radiant floors are pricey.
Sixth, insulate the slab and the interior perimeter walls now!
Lastly, look hard a pre-built garage/building packages. They can come already insulated, wired, plumbed, sided and shingled. There are some very high quality companies doing this in the northeast. They'll save you a lot of time and hassle and while not necessarily cheap, nothing is worse than trying to save money by doing this yourself and doing it the wrong way. Good luck.
Have you thought of consulting a landscaping professional to help you place the next buildings? There's nothing worse than putting that shed, garage or studio space somewhere and the landscaping is just an after-thought.
If a really good landscaper (who also has experience with "hard-scape" like retaining walls, outbuildings, etc) can come up with the final "grand design" then you could place buildings now and add in the landscaping over time.
Who knows, you may end up adding in a pond or some other feature you never thought of before.
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Thanks, you are right.
If you live in a semi rural area, I'd look for a pole barn builder who also has some light commercial experience and see if they are interested in quoting your build. The siding and details would be second nature to someone with this type of experience.
For intermittent heating/cooling and conditioning to eliminate condensation the wide fiberglass batts typically used in pole barn wall insulation and chopped fiberglass in the ceiling will probably work well.
Regarding overhead doors, look at commercial grade insulated doors with good snirtstopper weather stripping and bottom seals.
Yes it is a rural area, the builder we found specializes in sheds and barns. I think I prefer mineral wool over fiberglass but it seems pretty interchangeable so it doesn’t seem like something they would have a problem with.
I will ask about commercial grade doors, thanks! The doors I had found are residential and R-16, so I’ll see if there is a better option.
It looks like this is main garage for the house? I always like to think about how it's going to be used and then work in the aesthetics. Will it still be used like an attached a attached garage would be or more like a storage shed? How many times will you be accessing it and under what conditions? Rushing school kids in the morning is much more stressful than a mid morning drive to the store. Do you need sheltered access for kids to wait getting into the cars and path lighting? How active will the workshop be?
Count me in as one who votes for taking matching design cues from the main house and repeating some design elements.
I learned a lesson about use and function. We built a covered seating area in our current yard that's about 30 feet from the door (unsheltered). Spent a lot on design and making it look nice. We find we use it way less than we thought just because of the distance from the house. I know it sounds like we are pampered or spoiled, but it's not really easy to have a quick coffee out there, especially when the weather is so so. In our current build we made sure to include a covered patio integral to the house. The difference is like having an extra outdoor space as part of the house rather than walking to a separate building.
Yes this is the main garage. Your questions are good ones, I find it a bit tricky to design because the variables are sort of unknown. We don’t know exactly what we will need and how we will use the garage, this is a big lifestyle shift for us moving from city to country. We are also young and don’t have kids yet, so it is hard to think of scenarios like you describe such as running kids to school in the morning.
It is a total guess but I think we will mainly be accessing the garage for storage and tools, we want to set up a lot of stuff on our land so many days will be spent in and out of garage while building things and doing various work and projects to establish gardens and eventually introduce animals. So I think we want to have a section maybe at the far end of the garage which has wall storage more like an attached garage with kid stuff/skis/etc. Nearer to the entry I think it should really be a functional storage area with most used tools and equipment for landscaping etc. I don’t know how busy the shop will be, we have like 5 tools which we don’t know how to use but we need to build many things so I anticipate it will be quite busy. I think the shop should be in a little section of its own so we are not needing to walk through it if it is messy or full of stuff in progress.
Ughhh your reminder about the outdoor room is… tough. Trust me, this was absolutely in the design brief for the house. We were supposed to have a screened porch attached. Let’s just say it was an awful structure tacked onto the house and quickly removed because the architect’s design was so many hundreds of thousands $ over budget even without factoring in anything we wanted as far as finishes etc. I totally agree with you though, I really wanted at least a covered patio area (ideally screened) integrated into the house design. At minimum I wanted a trellis/pergola thing attached so we could have shade from vining plants on the south. We have nothing. There is not a single place to lounge outside in the shade. We are not really sun people so it seems ridiculous to spend this much money and essentially have the whole garden area south of the house in full sun with nowhere we would really want to sit. We will have to build a separate structure so it won’t be ideal. It is possible we could build something attached to our sliding door in the walkout basement in the future, I don’t know. This is an interesting point about how architecture shapes how we live - our architect messing this up now means we will likely spend a lot more time inside simply because that is how it has been designed. Of course, we can pack up and head to some exterior area but it is just a different experience as you mention. I’m sure we will spend plenty of time outside so it’s fine, but the time will be more active time off doing stuff until we can figure out some kind of garden structure. And then it gets complicated because we have 360 views in the house so a structure will be very visible. Hah, think of me while you enjoy your new covered patio! :)
Izzza,
I have the benefit (not sure it's a benefit) of being old and having lived in several houses with children through their stages of growing up and experiencing how houses function.
One of my pet peeves is that so many garages are built that are non-functional for vehicles and storage. So many doubles are so narrow and they install two doors to look better, but you can't open the car door if you park in it. They are used as big sheds and people leave their cars on the driveways or the street.
For me, I would want convenient sheltered access to vehicles. We tend to use them daily and I want be able to drive away without having to dress for the weather. Since you are in the country, I'm guessing that your walk score is low and your grocery runs may be higher volume. How do you want to unload them in the pouring rain? When it snows, how much snow removal do you want to do just to access your garage? I designed my bays so they were wide and deep enough that I could pull a vehicle forward and move a snow blower out without having to back out a car.
If you ever have kids, there will be backpacks, lunches, tons of different clothes to cart them off to school. I have a lot of tools but I only have enough room to store them in the garage and move the cars out when I need to work with them.
This is your house and garage and you should build what works for you, but I would have a sheltered breezeway access and enough space for functional vehicle storage/charging. I would try to accommodate the things I do everyday as a priority over occasional things, but try to have a workaround to allow for them.