Installation and Serviceability of Mitsubishi vs. Mr. Cool Miniplits
I apologize in advance for the wall of text…in building our home, I had Energy Vanguard handle the energy evaluation for the plans….got our manual-J, manual-S (Mitsubishi units), and duct plan…hurray. However, the issue I’m running into is that NONE of the HVAC companies in my area are willing to pick up my project. I suspect that when I hand them my reports from EV and the specs for the build, that this is turning them off. I am sympathetic in this regard…when you have a non-professional “telling” the professional what to do, then I can understand…I didn’t think I was being bossy, I would reach out and tell them that I have a new-construction project, that I have my manual-J and specs for the units, but that I need someone to do the install, etc. I either A) never hear back from them, B) I’m told they aren’t taking new clients, or C) they’re too busy…maybe I’m reading between the lines when I don’t need to.
Regardless, this leaves me with a bit of a situation. I’m not adverse to doing the installation myself, but this was one thing I was hoping to have subbed out, particularly to take advantage of Mitsubishi’s extended warranty for qualified installation. This brings me to my next consideration…my electrician was doing some work on our meter base and the guy with him was a retired HVAC tech. He was asking about the house, as he had never seen ICF before and we were just talking shop about heating and cooling. Well, I relate my issues to him (we’ll call him Bob), and Bob asks if I had thought about Mr. Cool units. In my opinion, Mr. Cool units are super DIY friendly, but not something that I would suggest is the most efficient nor best quality, just based on my initial research. Bob then noted that of all the units he has ever had to work on, Mr. Cool units were some of the easiest to fix (there might be a nearby supply warehouse that he can get Mr. Cool parts? I’m still figuring that out), but that Mitsubishi units were generally more of a hassle due to all the layers of support he had to go through to get replacement parts. Bob recommends Mr. Cool over Mitsubishi simply on the basis of service and repair.
For those who have gone down this path before, what are your recommendations? Obviously, serviceability is a significant concern, and I want to keep that in mind…but I also don’t want to jump ship from Mitsubishi (of which I’m very impressed with) just on the recommendation of one data point. Has anyone else planned to install Mitsubishi and swapped to Mr. Cool? Any regrets? Should I stay the course?
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If I was doing a new build, I would want to find an HVAC company I trust to not only do the install, but do the commissioning and future service. I would open up your search to companies carrying Fujitsu, Daikin, Carrier, etc. In my area, I would probably have the most luck with Carrier.
Nothing against the Mr. Cool units, but who are you going to call to service it?
I'm still working that portion out...I don't know who of the companies/HVAC techs in the area actively service the Mr. Cool units...but Bob seemed to indicate that parts were not hard to get either due to a distribution center or warehouse that was relatively nearby.
So, within my service area (rural KY), most of the HVAC businesses all cover the major companies you listed above...so even if I went with a different mfg that they supported, it would still likely be the same story. Fujitsu was actually second on my list, but I liked the Mitsubishi cloud app better (first world problems).
What unit(s) did Energy Vanguard spec?
They spec'd a couple Mitsubishi KA12NAHZ
That’s the outdoor unit? So 2 1:1 ductless heads?
So is "Bob" willing to oversee the install and be on call if you need service?
Ha, maybe...but he's already retired once...not sure how long he'll be in the game ;)
1. Reset your thinking - it is NOT a "non professional telling a professional what to do." This is a professional designer, Energy Vanguard, spec'ing out what a professional installer should quote and install. Those who don't want to do it see that you have someone on your team who knows what they are doing, and they would prefer to install for people who don't know what they are doing.
2. Look up Mitsubishi Diamond dealers in your area and ask them to quote the install.
3. If 2 does not help, contact Mitsubishi and ask for a recommendation(although this is unlikely to get you anywhere)
4. Contact anyone you know in your area who has built a high performance home and ask for a recommendation
I'm sympathetic to your predicament because it happens often. Then the problem becomes who will service it (and Mitsubishi Diamond status is not what they want you to think it is).
I suspect there will be FAR more mini split installers within a year due to the Inflation Reduction Act rebates for heat pumps.
1. I agree wholeheartedly...but this is likely the viewpoint of the companies I am trying to contract
2. I have...I've contacted them all, or tried to...some won't return my calls
3. I hadn't considered that, but there are a couple more companies which are a bit outside my service area that might be willing to help
4. Ha, there's no one in the area like that...literally, I have told my wife, "If I hear one more time 'well, that's not how we build houses around here' I'm going to blow a gasket"
I suspect in the end that I'll be installing whatever units we decide to go with, even if that means having EV update the spec to make sure we are getting the right units...still, this is one thing where I REALLY don't want to do this portion myself.
If there are compelling reasons to go with one mfg over the other, then I'm open to that...Bob, in this case, said he was able to fix them faster and easier than the Mitsubishi units...so in this case, I'm trying to see if there is any validity to that, because as it stands now? I'm likely going to end up doing all of it myself and then having someone service it when it breaks.
If there are so few firms in your area familiar with mini split install, then I suspect you will have an even greater challenge finding someone to service them.
If I were to do it over, I would NEVER do a 3 indoor ducted to 1 outdoor unit. If it fails, I have no HVAC. The installer the contractor used was not Mitsu certified and does not do any service; only installs. I'm in one of the 10 largest cities in the US, and have had 2 Mitsu Diamond dealers here, both of whom assured me multiple times over the phone they are familiar with ducted minis, and both of whom arrived, looked at the ducted minis and declared they had never seen one (and had no idea how to address it). I ended up doing my own problem solving via the internet, which I really don't want to do.
I'll also add this is a major fail on the part of Mitsubishi. You may have a good product, but your end consumers cannot get them serviced, which actually results in a terrible product.
So whatever you install, you need a plan to service it. Right now it sounds like your best plan is Bob. Even if Bob retires, he may be willing to continue to service your units.
And for both of us, maybe the upcoming 2023 tax credit for heat pumps will bring more options for service.
The designer will gladly fit in any reasonable equipment into the design you ask them to. They're not making money on one brand vs. another. In a lot of cases, this is a simple swap out. (Ducts complicate it a bit, but not all that much.)
I have no faith in the manufacturer certified installer blah blah in the absence of any other reliable indicators. Too many of them have no idea how to do anything outside the box and/or are too big to reliably deliver the installers who do know.
I've mentioned this before; if you are coming with a pre-designed system, look for companies that do a lot of commercial and some residential. An already designed system won't faze them, as that's the norm in commercial.
Those companies will have a dedicated sales guy/team. You need to get that guy onboard to advocate for you.
H4X,
Sorry that I haven't got any useful advice to offer -- but I can't help noticing that your case is a good example of the problem discussed in my recent article: "Implementing Energy-Saving Advice Isn’t Always Easy."
I feel your pain. Had the same issue with Fujitsu units that were specified. This is also a busy time time of year for HVAC companies. If you have the time, maybe wait awhile and try again. We eventually found someone to implement our plan but it took dozens of calls. I had a spreadsheet going to keep track of all the calls.
Carrier and Mr. Cool are both rebranded Mideas, so I wouldn't get too hung up on access to parts of one manufacturer vs another. I ran into an issue with my multi zone Fujitsu last winter, and the local Mitsubishi installer was willing to fix it. I know someone with a failed Mr. Cool, and the local Fujitsu dealer handled it.
Simple, single zone ductless equipment should be treated more like the products they are- consumer electronics. This whole sanctity of the installer thing--the idea that only a professional is qualified to size or install relatively straightforward, simple, and low cost ductless equipment (or some ducted equipment for that matter)--really has to stop if, the goal is widespread consumer adoption as soon as is humanly possible. I give credit to Mr. Cool for opening up the DIY market (but admittedly their pre-charged line set equipment isn't yet up for the task of heating in a cold climate). And it's too bad all the other manufacturers are tied to dealer network models, as everyone would benefit from an opening of the heat pump market. If you're inclined to do it yourself, I say go ahead. In most regions of the world ductless equipment is sold as such. Buy it from Walmart and call your local plumber for install. I recently put down $1,000 on a new iPhone with the intent of replacing it in a few years. How is a $1,500 piece of ductless equipment much different?
I work for an org. that provides energy auditing services- I see estimates for installs all the time. Last week I saw one for a completely straightforward (abt. 12' lineset, no weird construction issues) muz-fs15nah for $7,000, and that's without the high voltage hookup. For a machine that costs $2,500 retail (and not at discount like the Mitsubishi dealer has access to) and 2/3 day's work for install, that's completely ridiculous.
The Mr Cool DIY central units are rebadged Gree Flexx heat pumps. These are good units with great low temperature performance. The smallest one is 1.5ton though, so if you can make a pair of those or a single 2 ton work, it would be a good swap for the Mitsubishi unit.
From my experience, these units are not fixed but replaced. The material cost of a new outdoor or indoor unit is so low that it is not worth while trying to troubleshoot never mind disassembling and re-assembling. For example, I ran into this with a budget unit I installed at the cottage. Power quality is pretty bad out there and eventually the control board fried. A set of new ones would have been about $600. For $1200 I picked up a brand new hyper heat unit that has way better specs.
I was pleasantly surprised with the availability of parts and instructions online when I accidentally cracked my blower wheel on my Pioneer mini split. Highseer.com had the part in stock, and motors as well. There were not specific instructions for my model but I watched a few videos and I was able to swap it out in 10 minutes.