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Community and Q&A

WRB – A Sticky Situation

Wannabegreenbuilder | Posted in General Questions on

I recently reviewed the ASTM testing methods for adhesive products.  I am attempting due diligence (for region 6 cold dry climate with tremendous temperature fluctuations, -20 to 100 degrees F range) on a remodel.  If I am going to the trouble and expense of building a wall I can be proud of with painstakingly continuous control layers,  how can one be confident what product works best for my specific climate? ASTM testing is pretty bogus and does NOT seem to me to represent real world building practice. It is January here in Montana and I know the building I did yesterday was not done at the 75 degree F temperature that ASTM tests at!  So, I feel I will trust you people with real world experience more than industry (made to pass the test) standards.   What adhesive tapes have you used and when properly applied how long have you personally seen they have lasted?  This question also applies to stretch tapes which my suspicious mind tells me won’t last just because it has a memory and wants to return to its original form or fails because it was stretched too thin.    This question also applies to fluid applied sealants which I tend to trust more for some unexplainable reason.   I know of one person, for example, who did some back yard testing using Huber Zip tape and it is still working after 10 years.  Our combined Real world experience, however imperfect as it is in standardization, I feel is more useful than ASTM standards because at least we are attempting to adhere to things like concrete, OSB, or real wood.  The dirty little secret is ASTM tests are conducted on adhesion to stainless steel.  I don’t use a lot of that in my wall assembly due to budgetary constraints,  but hey, my wall WOULD probably last 500 years if I did!  Finally, for the very brave of you,  can you share with us what you did WRONG when applying tape, house wrap adhesives or liquid applied product and how that specific product performed with improper application?  I won’t shame you because you are honest and got a fish mouth for example,  when you applied your tape.  I am human too and make my share off mistakes believe me.  As builders in the real world we deal with conditions that are not always perfect and even with the best intentions, we may not always follow best practices as they do in the building science lab.   How long the adhesive lasted when applied wrong is useful information because one product may be more forgiving than another.  Please keep your comments constrained to first hand experience or at least knowledge you feel confident we can trust.  Please do not share with us what the sales representative told you.  We all get enough of that. They are probably basing their info off ASTM standards at best or just want your cash regardless of how useful their product will be in your application at worst.  Or perhaps they are just like me, and can’t come up with reliable real world experience over a long time span.    Thank you in advance to those that care to share what you know.

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Replies

  1. Expert Member
    Michael Maines | | #3

    Here are several tests done wingnut-style (including the original wingnut, Peter Yost's):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqnjklBuwrY (guest Sharon Libby shares the testing they did at her company)
    https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/return-to-the-backyard-tape-test
    https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/two-wingnuts-describe-their-backyard-tape-tests

  2. charlie_sullivan | | #1

    My first-hand experience of seeing tape fail is primarily seeing it fail to stick to dirty, porous surfaces like dirty, old concrete. Primer can help, both by filling the porosity and cementing the dirt in place.

  3. Wannabegreenbuilder | | #2

    Yes, there are those times when the extra effort/cost is worth it. How long has it been since you first started using a primer/tape application and has it failed? What brands did you use? What Geographic zone was you job in and what was the approximate cost in your area?

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