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Musings of an Energy Nerd

Sliding Insulation Between Rafters From Above

If you need to insulate the sloped ceiling of a Cape Cod home, you may be able to slip in baffles and insulation from the third-floor attic

Working from above, it's possible to slide ventilation baffles and insulation into uninsulated rafter bays. But this type of work can be tricky, especially if the attic is cramped and if the sloped ceiling you are trying to insulate is long. [Photo credit: Joe Ducheck]

It’s harder to weatherize an old Cape Cod house than it is to weatherize other types of houses. The second floor of a Cape Cod house has sloped ceilings, typically interrupted by 4-foot-high kneewalls. In most cases, a Cape also includes a horizontal ceiling in the center of the second floor, with a cramped third-floor attic above the horizontal ceiling.

If you live in an old, uninsulated Cape, you know how hard it is to come up with a good way to insulate your home’s sloped ceilings. Among several possible methods, these approaches are typically recommended:

These approaches work, but they are expensive and potentially disruptive. What about a third approach — namely, trying to slide ventilation baffles and insulation into the rafter bays from the third-floor attic? Is that even possible?

The answer is “maybe.”

Before we provide tips on how it may be possible to slide insulation down the rafter bays from the attic above, let’s list the factors that may make this work difficult or impossible:

Before you attempt this approach to insulating a sloped ceiling, you have to decide on what type of ventilation baffle to use, and what type of insulation to use.

Ideally, your insulation baffle will be long enough to reach from the top of the sloped ceiling section to the bottom, so that you don’t have to try to insert two or three baffles in each rafter bay. (It would be hard to insert the bottom-most baffle in place if it wasn’t long enough to reach all the way to the upper attic.)

If you decide to use a commercially available baffle like SmartBaffle or AccuVent  or Provent, first determine whether the products are long enough. (SmartBaffle is 37 inches long, and Accuvent baffles can be ordered in…

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9 Comments

  1. Doug McEvers | | #1

    This sounds like the kind of project I would get involved in, cramped quarters and nearly impossible. The one thing I will say about insulating ceilings, flat or cathedral, the work must be impeccable including air sealing. We have had a lot of light, fluffy snow in the Twin Cities in the last week and the ice dams are really showing up. Some of these on fairly recent construction that should have been built better according to MN Code.

  2. David B | | #2

    The Title of this Article should be "Mission Impossible". This is one of those "I have more time on my hands than money" projects that you get 50% through, throw up your arms and do what you should have done in the first place, which is remove the drywall. In reality, if you need to do this work in the first place, it's probably leaking inside air anyway. If you can do this easily, then your roof probably wasn't nailed on properly. Save yourself some aggravation. My advice: Do not try this at home.

    I can't count the number of stupid ideas I've come up with to save money or save from destroying one thing to fix another. I think I am batting a 1000 on my stupid workarounds actually wasting more time and ending up in the same darn place. Do it once, do it right. Great article to read as I got to reflect back on some of my more interesting workarounds.

    1. User avater GBA Editor
      Martin Holladay | | #3

      David,
      Thanks for sharing your perspective.

      I have provided the following advice to countless homeowners asking about this type of work: "Remove the drywall on your sloped ceiling." As you might imagine, the pushback is significant. No one wants to do it.

      The steps in this article describe an alternative path -- but as you point out, the alternative path has its own pitfalls.

  3. Kohta Ueno | | #4

    Just so folks are aware of current research, there is a Building America project looking at injecting closed cell spray foam into closed rafter cavities as a retrofit. The application to this geometry would be if the roof were being switched to an entirely unvented roof; their approach would inject ccSPF through holes drilled in the gypsum board/plaster at the "compact" roof portion.

    Of course, if the compact roof section is short enough, a spray foam contractor might do slow-rise injection/poured foam from above.

    I'm always wary about shooting foam "blind"--seems like many things can go wrong from a quality control point of view. But I'll look forward to whatever results these guys get.

    1. User avater GBA Editor
      Martin Holladay | | #5

      Kohta,
      Thanks for the information on the Building America research. Like you, I'm interested in the results.

      In addition to all of the problems inherent in trying to "work blind," there is another potential problem with injecting foam -- the problem of blowing out the drywall or plaster. Of course, that's not supposed to happen with a skilled installer. Yet, amazingly enough, it still happens...

  4. Andy Kosick | | #6

    Thanks for this article, it makes me feel like I'm not crazy having done this several times professionally. In response to David B above, I think there is room for a solution like this. These houses aren't going away, nobody wants to tear apart the inside of their house, and usually the call comes just after a new roof was put on (and there's still ice dams). Also, if the rafters are at least a 2x6 it works. By works I mean there's very little ice damming and interior surface temperatures are reasonable. If you push the R-values up everywhere else except that sloped section the overall situation is pretty good. I'm considering one right now with 2x4 rafters that needs a roof, and I'd like to add foam above the roof deck, but I'm actually struggling to find contractor to work with in the area. As much as GBA talks about this method, I don't think anybody's doing it in my neck of the woods yet.

    We use 3/4" polyiso with clips made from F-channel (see picture). The foam seems to take dense-pack cellulose with only a little deflection, even at 2 ft centers. I think the trick to this work is to prepare everything possible outside the attic and then think through the process very carefully to minimize movement. At least two people, one installs, the other feeds tools and materials to the installer.

    The ccSPF sounds good but I have my doubts. Foam just doesn't fill the way fiber does, the amount pressure needed to fill every nook and cranny tends to be more than the wall/roof can take. I thermal imaged some walls where a slow rise ccSPF was used and they looked like swiss cheese. That said, if they can make it work, I'm open to solutions.

    1. User avater GBA Editor
      Martin Holladay | | #8

      Andy,
      Thanks for sharing your experience with this method. Reports from the field like yours are valuable.

  5. David B | | #7

    Andy,

    I'll stand partially correct, but with a caveat. The pics shown by you is a post 1952 house I presume. I would guess this would be easier with trusses for sure. Still a PITA and still has many of the same issues (air leaking). But I get it. It's circumstance dependent and if your circumstance is that you can't/don't' want to remove drywall , this is a valid option in some cases. Cheers

  6. Jon Nicholson | | #9

    I have a 1940s cape (Portland OR) and have been curious if this technique would be feasible in the sloped portion of my plaster ceilings. It’s just under a 4ft stretch with access only from the underside - the ‘upper’ attic has no access and is maybe 20” tall from if I did my geometry right.

    2x4 rafters so I would like to maximize the R per inch of whatever I can stuff in there. Does anyone have experience attempting this procedure with 2” of foam board beneath a ventilation chute? I imagined the foam board would have to be cut quite loose and gaps filled with canned foam (albeit blindly...I’ve seen applicators with 4ft extension)

    Attic gets quite uncomfortable in the summer/winter and as much as I’d like to address that I’m not sure it’s worth moving out of our upstairs bedroom to embark on some plaster demo

    A few more details: vented attic, unconditioned; about 20yrs ago somebody came in with blown-in fiberglass filled the attic floor and sprayed it up into vaulted ceiling portion - what’s left of it is ineffective at best and smells terrible.

    Appreciate any input that’s out there

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